Buckle up ladies and gentlemen, this one gets a little bumpy 😂!!!! We were able to have a wild conversation with the legend Jan Johnson. After winning a Bronze Medal in the 1972 Olympics, Jan's passion for pole vaulting led him to open what he believes to be the first pole vaulting club in America, laying the foundation for the incredible growth in pole vaulting clubs and gyms we see today. He has also dedicated a lot of his life to innovation in the sport's safety equipment and standards. I grew up on the Sky Systems VHS series, so it was pretty surreal having Jan come to the RISE Pole Vault Training Center to sit down for a podcast. Thank you!!!
Thank you so much to our sponsors!!!
PVR App - The future of pole rentals: If you are in the business of renting pole vaulting poles, you need to see what PVR can do for you! Check out the links below for more info and to see PVR in action.
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Visit RISEPolevault.com for all things pole vault!!! Whether you are looking to take a vaulting class or compete in a competition at our the state of the art RISE Pole Vault Training Center located in Joliet, IL, or wanting to use one of our many services ranging from pole vault business consulting to virtual coaching in the vault, risepolevault.com has got your covered!
RISE Pole Vault is now selling all three major pole brands including UCS Spirit, Essx, and Pacer. Email in to support@risepolevault.com and let us get you set up with some new poles!
Buckle up ladies and gentlemen, this one gets a little bumpy 😂!!!! We were able to have a wild conversation with the legend Jan Johnson. After winning a Bronze Medal in the 1972 Olympics, Jan's passion for pole vaulting led him to open what he believes to be the first pole vaulting club in America, laying the foundation for the incredible growth in pole vaulting clubs and gyms we see today. He has also dedicated a lot of his life to innovation in the sport's safety equipment and standards. I grew up on the Sky Systems VHS series, so it was pretty surreal having Jan come to the RISE Pole Vault Training Center to sit down for a podcast. Thank you!!!
Thank you so much to our sponsors!!!
PVR App - The future of pole rentals: If you are in the business of renting pole vaulting poles, you need to see what PVR can do for you! Check out the links below for more info and to see PVR in action.
PVR Website
PVR Instagram
PVR Youtube
Want to help support the One More Jump Podcast? Click the link below to become an episode sponsor!
https://www.risepolevault.com/omj-episode-sponsorship/
Visit RISEPolevault.com for all things pole vault!!! Whether you are looking to take a vaulting class or compete in a competition at our the state of the art RISE Pole Vault Training Center located in Joliet, IL, or wanting to use one of our many services ranging from pole vault business consulting to virtual coaching in the vault, risepolevault.com has got your covered!
RISE Pole Vault is now selling all three major pole brands including UCS Spirit, Essx, and Pacer. Email in to support@risepolevault.com and let us get you set up with some new poles!
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the one more jump podcast by Rise Poll Vault. Today's episode is brought to you by PVR. Pvr is the revolutionary poll rental app that will take your poll rental headaches and turn them into a well functioning machine managing payments, managing checking out, checking back in, managing swaps, managing all the things that we manage as poll rental businesses, which is a lot. Pov PVR has been super influential in what we do here at Rise and it is just an amazing tool. Today we have Jan Johnson on the podcast.
Jake Winder:Jan is a legend in the game. He was the 72 Olympics bronze medalist in Munich and has just really taken the sport of pole vaulting and pushed it forward. I kind of gave him the name as the godfather of pole vaulting clubs in America. He really was one of the first people that pushed the private pole vaulting sector further And everything that we have today kind of is climbing on the back of what he's done in the pole vault and I'm just super grateful for that.
Jake Winder:We dove into the box collar the ever controversial box collar topic and he unpacked it very, very well and did a great job just explaining what went into it and why the decisions were made and this and that and the other, and it was really, really helpful for me to get a better understanding of it And we just covered all kinds of different things his relationship with pre-fontein and just I don't know lots of cool stuff in this in this episode. So hope you guys enjoy this episode with Jan Johnson, all right, all right. So we good, roger, that Jan Johnson in the house Appreciate you coming out here and doing this. This is you've. Like I told you earlier, this has been kind of on my bucket list is to have you come in and do the podcast. I grew up watching all the Sky Systems. I attended one of your camps at Maine South way back in the day, probably like 0405.
Jan Johnson:Me and.
Jake Winder:Jim Lonergan. Jim Lonergan Big.
Jan Johnson:Jim Lonergan. Yep, actually, he's been over here. He's been over here. I don't doubt that for a second. Yeah, he's awesome, yeah.
Jake Winder:So we actually are fortunate enough to do this in person, which normally we do it like over Zoom, like obviously, if I talk with Mando it's not going to be like in person, maybe one day, but it's much better because you can you. I think the conversation flows a little bit better when we're in person.
Jan Johnson:For sure Yeah.
Jake Winder:For sure. So I guess we start with you know, for those people who don't know which, if you don't know Jan Johnson and the pole vaulting community, you've been just living under a rock for the last 40 years.
Jan Johnson:They might have been sleeping or something like that. It's a long sleep.
Jake Winder:So what's your kind of you know, like a synopsis of your, your background and kind of where you grew up and how you got involved with pole vaulting?
Jan Johnson:Well, we grew up on Stegger Road on the south, on the southernmost end of Cook County, In fact, on the north side of Stegger Road you're in Cook County, on the south side you're in Will County, and I went to probably one of the best pole vault high schools in America Bloom High School in Chicago Heights and had a great pole vault coach. But for two or three years before I got there we jumped in our barn. We lived on 40 acres and I jumped hay bales with a pitchfork in the barn all the time. Really, We would go out and milk the cows.
Jake Winder:Hold on Is this a real story.
Jan Johnson:This is absolutely true This is absolutely true. Tim and I, both, my sister too the three of us And that's how I learned I could jump two and a half hay bales two hay bales laying on the low side and one hay bale on the stack side before I got to high school.
Jake Winder:How did you like learn that that was like something that you wanted to do? Did you just naturally like, hey, I could use this stick to get over these hay bales? Or had you seen it When I?
Jan Johnson:saw it on TV, watched Don Bragg jump on TV and said, heck, I can do that. Then my dad's a plumbing contractor. So we had copper tubing half inch and three quarter inch copper tubing all the time. Ok, but that we would, that he would do plumbing with. And that was a big day when I went from half inch to three quarter inch copper.
Jake Winder:Well, i was going to say, wouldn't copper, wouldn't that bend, wouldn't that like No, no, i'm little.
Jan Johnson:I'm 10, 12 years old, so yeah, that jump with copper tubing Sand floor in a barn Right, So not a box just planting the sand and run on the sand.
Jake Winder:Yeah, I mean that's how I started too. We used to just string up stuff between bushes and jump in the backyard. And one thing that we did when we were younger that my dad, like always my dad's been I don't know if you're familiar with, with my dad and his background, but he he's probably similar background to you. He grew up in a little town in Woodlawn Illinois, Like 300 people down in Southern Illinois, and you know, just figured it out in his backyard And one thing that he used to do as a kid was like is like creak vaulting, Like you know, just jumping over creeks. And so we used to go out to Forest Preserve by our house and we used to just cut down trees. That probably shouldn't cut down the trees, But you know back in the day we didn't, you know, we didn't think about that.
Jake Winder:So we would cut down the trees and then we would jump over the creeks, just run at the creek, plant the pole in the creek and then, and then you know, I jumped over the creek.
Jan Johnson:I landed flat on my back in a creek, one time on a ditch willow, using a ditch willow for a pole rolling pole.
Jake Winder:Right. Well, you know, to be honest with you, i think that is sometimes. I think kids going straight to a pole vaulting pit could be not as good of a way. I agree, yeah.
Jan Johnson:That's not the way. I don't, i don't, i don't, i don't like to. I teach a lot of pole vaulting, as you guys know, but I like to teach grass vaulting a little bit first, kind of get the feel of that Holding the low grip right, not having a plan in a box Right, and just getting the feel of that. That's just getting the feel of the beginning elements of the sport, in my opinion.
Jake Winder:Right, And trusting the pole, trusting to hang from that top hand because everybody wants to pull themselves up. That's true, That's yeah. So why? so? we're at rise right now. for those of you just listening, And you know I've always wanted to. in that spot we were talking about putting in another pit.
Jake Winder:I was like, well, you know, for a beginner, a sandpit is a great, a great, you know, way to learn how to pole vault, and so I was like, well, we should put a sandpit over there, And that creates a whole big mess and things like that.
Jan Johnson:You have to do a little concrete chopping, right? Yeah, that would be some work. Yeah, in my opinion. Yeah.
Jake Winder:You know what I mean. Well, i cut out these boxes myself, like we, you know, with the jackhammer. You know, cut them and jackhammer, and that was the first time I'd ever like used a jackhammer And I don't ever want to use a jackhammer ever Again. Man Destructing, like doing demo on on concrete, is not fun.
Jan Johnson:I grew up, i'd go to work with my dad, starting when I was 11 or 12 years. Like I said, he was a plumbing contractor and I do jackhammer and plumbing work all the time as a kid, and then a little bit of farm work and back And frankly, i think that type of work was good for me because it makes you strong Absolutely, and it makes you strong And, i think, in a good way for pole vaulting you know, so you know, and I grew up on the cusp of the change from metal poles to fiberglass poles.
Jan Johnson:I was a freshman in high school in 1965. And I jumped on metal pole all freshman year, jumped ten feet on a metal pole freshman year, and then we switched to glass sophomore year.
Jake Winder:How did that happen? I mean, i I know that there was a transition, you know, from bamboo to steel, to to fiberglass, but how did that transition to fiberglass? You know, like the background of how that happened, like who was the first one to do it, and things like that.
Jan Johnson:Herb Janks, i think, was the inventor of fiberglass and they were experimenting with it. And then our friend George Davies was the first guy to really jump really good on fiberglass.
Jake Winder:So Herb Janks built the first fiberglass pole Yep. And where was that? at Pole? rentals are crucial at the Rise Pole Vault Training Center, providing athletes the right pole at the right time, without the hefty price tag. The problem is managing rentals was a nightmare, with spreadsheets and logs leading to missing poles and missing payments. We faced a tough decision Stop renting poles or hire someone to manage them. Enter PVR, the game changing app that streamlines rentals, available on iOS and Android. Pvr acts like a full time rental employee, without the cost, managing payments records and offering a growing list of features to turn rentals into an invaluable service. Interested Contact support at rise pole vault dot com or DM us on Instagram for details. Discover how PVR revolutionizes the pole rental experience today.
Jan Johnson:That was in California. Herb Janks was the original catapult guy. Yeah, catapult Yeah.
Jan Johnson:Oh, wow, yeah, And then a couple other guys got into it. There was a lot of belly aching about among people if the rules should allow the bending of poles and allow fiberglass. All the guys had jumped high on steel and bamboo. They didn't like it And of course bamboo bent a little bit too if you had to right size Right, you know. So we saw a little bit of that. There were bamboo still poles being jumped on my first couple of years in high school actually.
Jake Winder:Yeah, and how did they? do you know how they managed that? Did they? did people just say no deal with it?
Jan Johnson:I think eventually the rule. The world record was changing so many times in the early mid sixties that I don't think there was any slowing it down. Right, it certainly changed the dynamic of the sport in many, many, many ways. Right, as you guys probably know, i've worked a lot on pole vault safety And of course a lot of that is about, you know, the landing pits and all that type of stuff to make it safer, because you know we went from sand landing on sand to landing on sawdust to the early fiberglass pits. The pit we jumped on a bloom high school was basically a big box, a wagon the size of a pole vault pit, with foam chunks in it and no front buns with like hard edges Yep.
Jan Johnson:I got. I got a good picture I can show you here in my phone if you want to look at it. Yeah, i jumped 15 feet on that in high school. No front bun, just plywood sides all the way around covered with canvas. no front buns, just straight up and down in the front.
Jake Winder:And it was it like how big, was it Like what could you miss?
Jan Johnson:Could you hit the side and like I never I don't remember anybody ever missing the side, and there was no regulations for how big the pit needed to be Right. Yeah, no regulations for that.
Jake Winder:Well, i mean you know, so when you introduce the fiberglass pole, i mean it changes the whole safety profile of the sport, Absolutely. Yeah, i mean that must have been like crazy.
Jan Johnson:All you have to do is look over there in that wall. That tells you a lot of the story.
Jake Winder:Right, right, absolutely.
Jan Johnson:No doubt, and it's taken a long time since the mid 60s into the 70s, 80s, 90s for people to kind of figure out the resistance factor and go into a bigger pole when you're blowing through and all those type of things. Absolutely.
Jake Winder:Yeah, So I wasn't planning on getting into this until you know later on in the podcast. But I mean you know so you're. So first of all, can you explain your position in the safety and what that all is, because I hear these things from the great mind and I just I'm really excited that I get to hear it from the source today.
Jan Johnson:Well, I started running camps in 1973.
Jake Winder:And in California.
Jan Johnson:No, our first camp was at Bloom High School. We ran camp there a couple of three years. Then I went to grad school at SIU Carbondale And then we ran camps where people came and stayed over over the night and stayed in the dorms and everything And that that I would see so many on. And well, actually 1970. Bill Hatcher and I were coaching Bruce Jenner, Tad Scales, guys like that. They would just come and jump with us at at University of Kansas. We're just helping kids out, trying to figure out how to pull off. Bruce was an absolute beginner when we, when we helped him, you know. And Tad Scales, who jumped 16 low in high school, was one of the best high school guys. He was a Lawrence Kansas high school kid. I just I've always had fun helping kids do the sport. It's just fun to me. Right, That was even when I was competing as a world class guy. It was just fun And my little brother would be the same way teaching him and the other kids Boom She was.
Jan Johnson:We had at Bloom High School during Tim's era And after Tim's era we probably had there was four or five guys that jump high 15s or 16 feet at that high school. They were loaded all the time in it. So I think the information on technique in the assignment of polls and all that just got passed along from person to person to person And then that follow. I mentioned a little while ago George Hamlin, high school physics and math teacher. He loved it, He got it, He figured it out, He helped me figure it out And you know, and he coached, he coached Ike Jefferson. Uh, fift 1959, Indoor High School record 13, 5, 1959, Wow, 13, 5 on metal pole. That's crazy. Yeah, The high school just had a history of it. So I think that part of teaching the method, teaching the drills, teaching those things And they've obviously changed a lot over the years as fiberglass poles have developed and all that- Right.
Jan Johnson:And people figured out technique. But that that's really. that's really to me what it's all about Just fun to do.
Jake Winder:And what is your role as far as safety goes in the United States?
Jan Johnson:Well, Dean Starkey and I own the Povault Safety Certification Board website. We started that. Oh my gosh, i couldn't even tell you what year We probably certify. you go online and you study the materials and then you take a test. That's really what it is And look at videos and we explain things And we do a couple thousand, couple thousand coaches a year, because there's always coaches turning over in our sport.
Jan Johnson:You know, right, so that that that's really what that's. That's what that's really that's been all about. And not long after that I started working on pole vault safety projects making the pits bigger. You know, the box collar was my invention. Basically, a lot of it was just padding hard surfaces, right, do you know about my padded box work that we've done?
Jake Winder:Yeah, so that's one big thing that we can talk about. Very it's so it's. It's controversial, and the thing that bothers me is this is you know, like I, i don't know where I'm at with it, but I have a few thoughts on it. Number one is everybody can do your job better until they got to do it. That's one of my favorite quotes. Nice comment, nice comment I can't argue that one.
Jake Winder:Thank you So so I do realize that there are people you know from the peanut gallery that will chirp at you and say well, you did this for money, or you did this for that, or you did this for this.
Jan Johnson:Don't forget what Elvis Presley said, what It's all about. The money, honey. You want to get along with me? 1957. And not a goddamn thing has changed since 1957. As far as the money goes, honey. Sorry everybody, You want to delete that out. That's your prerogative, big guy. I'm not going to argue it.
Jake Winder:Well, I mean. So there's a lot to unpack in that situation. So obviously, the pole vault is a dangerous event if not instructed properly, And the problem is that we've got a lot of people that don't know how to instruct, And then we've got some people that have no coaches.
Jan Johnson:That's right.
Jake Winder:So how do you go about trying to keep those people safe? And so I think that, in my opinion, I think that the box collar was your best effort at that time to pad as many surfaces as possible and trying to reduce the amount of effect that it would have on a pole vault.
Jan Johnson:During my time. we've made the pits bigger, We've made the pits longer and wider. Pits only used to come to the inside edge of the standards many years. The pits were only 11 or 12 feet from the box at the back of the pit. And that was all fine in the later days of bamboo and metal poles and that type of thing. But when glass started, everything changed. You could land in a whole lot different places and all that.
Jan Johnson:So I worked on all those projects and got the National High School Federation to make the pits bigger and make them longer and pad the standard bases. That was also my invention. I didn't it wasn't patented, but it was just something that I showed them how to do And they've listed very carefully, bringing the front ponds out a measured amount. I also worked on, and Peter McGinnis and a couple of others have also worked on, some of these projects.
Jake Winder:So what went into the development of the box collar? Where did you start, why did you start it, and where is it at now?
Jan Johnson:Seeing people land in the box, and I'd done I probably done 40 expert witnessings on pole vault accident cases 40 or 50 pole vault accident cases during my time of doing this over the last 40 or 50 years or however long it's been. And so I just elected to work on those things. And the box collar was something that we did in my backyard at my Sky Jumpers pole vault club. I took a box well, the original box collar was also our invention where we didn't pad the inside quarters and edges of the box or we just had a flat piece of foam.
Jake Winder:It was much thinner too.
Jan Johnson:Much thinner and it basically padded around the perimeter of the box. Yeah so But then, but it was obvious in my mind because it slides around In the box collar we have today slides around. In my view it's good, it's safer, but it's a pain in the butt sometimes.
Jake Winder:Well, we bolt arms down? Yeah, and you're supposed to, that's what it says in the book, but people don't do that. Well, that's a great point. So that's a really really good point. Ok, well, you're going to. If I'm not, like I said, i don't know where I'm at with the whole thing. And personally, if you have good coaching, that's the safest thing you can do for a pole balter. I think everybody would agree on that. But if you don't have people landing in the box and the box collar doesn't, really, you could potentially be like well, it's affecting this or it's affecting that if your kids are landing in the pit, but then one kid goes up, that's right, and then comes down.
Jan Johnson:Just takes one bad mistake. One guy, no, i like the box collar now. One guy, that's right. It only takes one guy that tries to hold too high. Or maybe the wind turns around and it was a tailwind and now it's a headwind And you don't make the right adjustments, or you come down and have a bad plant, or you have a bad run, or you pick up the wrong pole, or you hold too high in the pole. There's a lot of ways you can end up landing short. So on the box collar, i just took the old box collar that we had and I added those sidewalls that go down on the inside edges and curve some things out a little bit and just taped it all together with the PoleVolder's best friend.
Jan Johnson:Duck tape, gorilla tape. So such a good guess, though Such a darn good guess, that's BS, because I use Tape from Gorillas.
Jake Winder:Think about it. I use Gorilla Tape all the time. I didn't think you knew what Gorilla Tape was, so there's a joke going around.
Jan Johnson:I mean, look this white right here, i see what you got.
Jake Winder:Gorilla tape Gorilla tape. The whole first facility that we built was basically built with Gorilla Tape. I love Gorilla Tape.
Jan Johnson:Sometimes I do Gorilla Tape with SprayTac.
Jake Winder:What's SprayTac? Well, they got the Gorilla Spray too, that's right. Yeah, yeah, that's good stuff, that's right.
Jan Johnson:Yeah, we do it that way too, because indoors here this is one thing, but if you're outdoors and you did this in California or Illinois or someplace, that might be another thing. But that type of spray adhesive is good sometimes.
Jake Winder:So you Gorilla, tape the original prototype together.
Jan Johnson:Clean it up, little light layer of SprayTac and then let it dry for a few hours and then put Gorilla Tape on top. Of it Sticks even better.
Jake Winder:That's what I'm talking about.
Jan Johnson:Don't ever tell the Gorillas. I said that I don't want them coming by my place looking me up. You know what?
Jake Winder:I'm talking about.
Jan Johnson:And a lot of those Gorilla Tapes. They have United American Airline Freak of Flyer miles, which of course that means they can go anywhere pretty much anytime they want.
Jake Winder:Yeah, the Gorilla Tape is legit. So you took your idea. You took your original box collar idea, which I think So a lot of people will be like oh yeah, just go back to the original box collar. Now I do have a case study personally. My middle brother, josh, broke his back with the original box collar, like broke his lower back, just because he landed on that edge And it probably just wasn't thick enough. And I wonder if that would have happened with the new one. The new one, i think, probably would have protected that. Good question. But the old box collar, i think it was better than nothing. But I wonder if people would argue that this one, if you land in the box, is safer than the last one. You probably couldn't argue that it's not safer if you land in the box.
Jan Johnson:Cushioning on the top edge is on. the inside walls is thick, in fact. I'll just tell you a little story. So for a year and a half we jumped on my prototypes on the box collar at my place And then I showed it to Dave Hodge, who's the guy at Gill Athletics. Oh, i coached in high school. I'm my dad.
Jake Winder:He's one of my dad's best friends. There you go. They grew up together. They grew up together.
Jan Johnson:Great guy, awesome Southern Illinois guy, And I showed it to him And we filed a patent on it and won it. And then during that time frame we did impact testing, force impact testing on it And we tested the inside walls, the top edges. And you want to know the truth The box collar that came up was thicker on the inside padding on the walls than I wanted And I belly-aked and pitched about it, and pitched about it And they came out with it anyway.
Jake Winder:Is that right, and why did you not want it that?
Jan Johnson:thick. I just thought it was coming into the middle of the box too much And I felt like it was going to move around. If it was going to move around, it was going to be a problem, and that's what it looks like sometimes to me.
Jake Winder:And that's why I think it's really important that we talk to you today And people understand this, because people would have never thought that, they would have never known that if we would have talked. It's not something I go out and tell everybody Well but that's the thing, is that it's like OK, well, you didn't want that, Because that's the biggest argument is like well, it's making the box narrower And then it's unsafe because people can't plant into it The problem was not with me and Gil athletics.
Jan Johnson:The problem is with ASTM. What's that? The American Society for Testing and Materials? You see, there's an ASTM for almost everything that's done in construction today, in those metal posts right there. There's an ASTM for it For the rubber track surfacing there's an.
Jan Johnson:ASTM for it, for what the structure is like on those metal seats over there. Astm I've been a member of for over 30 years. There's an ASTM for the pole vault pit, there's an ASTM for the box collar. There's an ASTM for all kinds of things out there. I try to make an ASTM for the pole vaulting poles And for the assignment of weight values in the way that is done, and I could never get it through because of the other big thing that Elvis Presley never sang about. What's that Politics? See, the big three is politics, sex and money. As you guys probably know Or maybe I had that in the reverse order Sex, politics and money. No money, sex and politics. Ok, anyway, that's what happens. You see, the manufacturers and people who are truly interested in it, in these type of things, they have a meeting a couple of times a year. Actually, the pole vault subcommittee F08.67, meets one time a year And it's about making the sport safer, but it's also a lot about politics.
Jake Winder:And politics as in so this ASTM. This means that there's a standard for the foam in a pole vault.
Jan Johnson:Correct.
Jan Johnson:And there's a standard How thick it is how soft it is, what the impact attenuation is. You see, in impact attenuation there's a machine that has a ball on a wire and it's about the size of a human head And you can drop that ball from any height you want, pretty much all the way up to about 13 feet, and it measures the impact on things. So if we drop that ball onto that concrete floor over there from the impact height that we use in poleballing, which is 12 and 1 half feet, it would measure around 10,000 hick head injury criteria The abbreviation is hick And if we dropped it onto this rubber track surface here on a floor, that would be about 8,500 hick, 3,000 hick. A hit of 3,000 hick is almost certain death in an impact. Uh-oh, and we're talking 10,000 on concrete And the concrete that's around the box and every goddamn pole vault box in the world damn near every pole vault box in the world is inserted into ground hull.
Jake Winder:That's right.
Jan Johnson:Plate steel sunk in concrete. That's how dangerous it is. And we're not even talking about the edges yet. We're just talking about a flat surface.
Jake Winder:So when I tor Because there's a different stress from the edges. That's right.
Jan Johnson:OK, And of course an edge is putting a lot more force onto this one than a flat surface. So 25 years ago, my good friend Eddie Cease, a pole vault, or friend of mine from the Bay Area, says hey.
Jan Johnson:Jan Johnson, you should get involved with the American Society in testing materials, ASTM. That's what we should do, And so for 10 or 15 years he and I worked on it And I learned about and did a bunch of impact testing on different materials and things so that we set those things up. It was a lot of work.
Jake Winder:I drive up. How long did it take? from the beginning of the develop, like the idea of you, gorilla, taping this, let's do the new box collar the current one. So from you, gorilla, taping it until you finally get the patent and then this new rule comes into effect. How long was that?
Jan Johnson:It was probably five three to five years, i don't remember exactly. But yeah, i didn't think about that long to go through ASTM, and we're doing the same thing on the box right now.
Jake Winder:Yeah, I want to get to the boxers.
Jan Johnson:Well, we should talk. I agree We should talk about it, but we should talk about other things right now. It's gotten too serious Yeah. No, it's just very interesting I think it's important because some people don't know that. They just don't understand what goes on.
Jake Winder:Well, and I mean, i think the biggest thing is is just like what do you say to people who say you did that just so you can make money?
Jan Johnson:If they understood how much time was involved in it because those people have no time involved if they understood how much money is involved in it, in the development of it. Now, the box collar yeah, that was my initial invention and I showed it to Gil and they loved it and they basically took it over after that and we shared the patent. Gil had all this impact testing and watching it get jumped on and all that was done. At our club We went through several prototypes. The prototypes that I wanted unfortunately didn't make it through ASTM because the guys at ASTM wanted the material to be thicker on the inside walls. Not everybody that's involved in making the rules is interested in making it safer. Some of them are just involved in money and who owns things and stuff like that. That makes sense if you think about it.
Jake Winder:Yeah, at the end of the day, that's kind of how business works, is you find a problem and then you find a product that fixes the problem and then if you do that, then you become a beneficiary of that product because of the time and things that you put into it. I think it's just, I don't know.
Jan Johnson:Look at pole-volting poles, for instance. Now there's no ASTM for pole-volting poles, but if you look at how, much more you can bend pole-volting poles today in today's world, than you could when I was at the world-class level. it's ridiculous If we'd raised our grip and the pole would break. I had four or five of those types of accidents.
Jake Winder:Well, that makes you not want to raise your grip anymore.
Jan Johnson:It makes you a little bit unhappy about pole-volting, but when you look at how much Mondo is bending the pole and the other guys that are jumping 18, 19 feet in today's world, they're not running any faster. They're not jumping up or planting any better. They can just bend the pole more because the manufacturers are making the poles better so they can be bent more. Right, but there's no ASTM for that.
Jake Winder:And do you think there should be?
Jan Johnson:I don't know if you can do it or not.
Jake Winder:Right, because it's just such a variable thing.
Jan Johnson:I did a lot of work on the assigning of weight values and trying to get that through ASTM and I failed. That was five or six years of work to try to do that.
Jan Johnson:I still have all the data. I've got everything. I can send it all to you. It made perfect sense, But I couldn't get it done. They didn't want to do it. They'd vote against it. Because it ends up it comes down to a vote at the subcommittee level That's the pole-vol group And then it goes to the main group and it comes down to a vote there. It's very similar to what happens in the United States.
Jake Winder:Congress. I guess Right, yeah, yeah.
Jan Johnson:It is.
Jake Winder:It's really how it works. So what is your opinion on weight labels and things like that? Because I run into it as a coach. I run into that problem a lot. Hey hey, hey, hey.
Jan Johnson:Uh-oh, okay, bring it, big boy, come on, bring it.
Jake Winder:It's a big, it's an uh-oh I run into that problem all the time. It's just like teaching people to properly bend the pole. I don't know if you're familiar with Tim Riley.
Jan Johnson:Yeah, sure.
Jake Winder:Yeah, so I did a podcast with Tim Riley and we kind of discussed about how you know, there are certain times as a coach that it makes sense for an athlete to vault on a pole, potentially under their body weight, depending on where they're gripping, and things like that. So that, uh-oh, that's just So. I think that that would be a good conversation is just, what are your thoughts on that And is there a way around our current That's why I worked on that project I was just talking about.
Jake Winder:And your opinion on it is The weight rule.
Jan Johnson:Uh-oh Is one of the stupidest rules in track and field. There's no weight rule at the international level There's no weight rule at the NCAA level.
Jan Johnson:Great point, there's only a weight rule at the high school level. And they made a weight rule based on nothing. There's no ASTM for it, there was no data on it. The manufacturers, for a few years, had been putting weight labels on the top of the pulse And keep in mind, you know, when I was jumping in the high school, we didn't have any. There was no weights. So yeah, there was just the way it was. But every pole over there in Yall's wall has a weight label on it, and so the high school federation and I begged them not to do it. I was at two of the meetings in Indianapolis begging them not to do it and told them I would work on this project and try to get an ASTM through, and I could never, ever, ever get it done.
Jan Johnson:And the truth of the matter is Oh, and I have an awesome flex machine in my backyard at my facility. Yeah, we flex poles all the time and look at it. And the truth is, is that generally, every six inches that you drop, your grip is about ten pounds in weight value.
Jake Winder:That's the truth. That's good to know. Yeah, I mean, I didn't know if it was.
Jan Johnson:I never, ever ever, teach kids to jump on poles that are equal to or greater than their body weight. Every single beginner kid is jumping on a pole under their body weight at my place.
Jake Winder:Every single one, No I. No, you guys tell me what you do here, okay? No, it's just, it's very difficult because it's like it's so subjective, Each pole valter that comes in here is a different pole valter.
Jan Johnson:That's right.
Jake Winder:You it's like okay, well, i know the proper way that can help them to pole vault the safest. And the problem is is it's like, in order for that to happen, i have to jump on this pole. but I can't jump on this pole because it's rated underneath their body weight.
Jan Johnson:I wanted to have a rule that allowed for multiple weight labels, multiple weight categories on poles, but that's illegal too.
Jake Winder:They have more than one label Browning used to have a That's right. Because my dad used to love that one, the browning that you It told you like. at this height, your weight is this much.
Jan Johnson:They were right on it, that's Herb Janks Did that.
Jake Winder:Really, Yep, Yeah, so that I really I think that that I mean, that's how it is Like if you were to flex on your flex machine and you were to put your What's it called, The span. You know, if you were to Push the span If you were to push it out towards the end of the pole it's going to be a different weight than it would be if you brought it in closer.
Jan Johnson:That's exactly right. If you and I have a pole and we're going to carry a 200-pound weight in the center of that pole and we're going to carry it across the other side of the parking lot there and we picked a pole up on the ends and it's bending too much, wouldn't we just get in closer? Exactly, duh.
Jake Winder:I'm sorry, Duh Well, but that's So. How did that happen? How did that rule kind of come? Do you know how it kind of came about?
Jan Johnson:I don't know exactly how it came. I think yeah, i don't know I think maybe a manufacturer or somebody said something and the High School Federation decided to put that in their rule book, that you couldn't jump on a pole under your weight, and we were having a lot of accidents in those days. I could see why that would be a problem that way. But I got to tell you we come and we start from a short run of three lefts. At my place, when you're a beginner on a little pole and when the pole bends too much, what do we do? Get on a bigger pole?
Jan Johnson:Get on a bigger pole Get on a bigger pole and do it one little step at a time on the way back And then typically, by the time you're at your long run, you can jump on a pole. It's at or greater than your body weight, and that's really the way I teach at a camp. That's the way I've taught it for 50 years. Truth is yeah.
Jake Winder:And then that brings up the question of like, okay, well, what if you? you know, you've heard the stories of athletes shown up to their high school and they got two poles.
Jan Johnson:And it's like well this one doesn't.
Jake Winder:This one's not at my body weight, the next one's like 50 pounds over my body weight, so I have to jump on that one That ain't going to work either probably So. this is so a solution is you know rentals, you know having a rental service that you can interchange poles and poles can grow with you in high schools, can rent poles from local facilities.
Jan Johnson:I think rental thing has been good, especially with the cost of poles. Oh, my gosh Right, the cost of poles is ridiculous.
Jake Winder:Right, right, Exactly. But it's kind of comes back to that same thing we were talking about earlier. Find a problem Yeah. Solve the problem Yeah. It can become a beneficiary of the problem, but it also benefits the athlete too. It's an even trade. It's an even trade Here.
Jan Johnson:I'll just I can't believe. I'm going to tell you the story right now, but you know, they banned the poles that I jumped on in the Olympic games. Do you?
Jake Winder:guys know all this Unfair advantage 1972 Olympic Games.
Jan Johnson:There's this German guy named Adrian Paulen, who's just a creepy looking dude, i'm sorry, right. And we start to hear a little something. We're in Oslo, norway, and I hear something one day that they're not going to let anybody jump on the blue catapults or the green sky poles in the Olympic games. And I'm like what, right? So we're only going to be allowed to jump on the brown poles and the black poles. I didn't think there was any way that could be true. And we're in Oslo, norway, i'm over there jumping in meets, and so we end up going to Munich and they make everybody check their poles in a couple of days, before the contest, and we walk into the room to get our poles to jump on prelims And all my poles are in the band pile. This is an hour before the contest starts. Duh Now, the guy that we were jumping against, you know, was an East German guy, And this guy, adrian Paulin, i think he was trying to screw Bob Seager and Steve Smith and I were the two Olympian, or the three Olympians.
Jan Johnson:So I ran back to the village and borrowed Bruce Jenner's poles, ran back over, had those poles looked at and they okayed them, but they were smaller than the poles I jumped on. So what did I have to do to make the finals in the Olympic games? I ran from 10 lefts. All year for the last three years as a world-class jumper I'd run from 10 lefts In the Olympic games prelims. I jumped from seven Hello, and held about six or eight or nine inches lowered and I would normally hold, and I was lucky and I made finals.
Jake Winder:That's crazy.
Jan Johnson:Gets crazier. Then my friend Kirk Bride loans me poles for the finals, which are also a little bit smaller, but a little bigger than the poles Bruce had. So those poles are already okay. They bitched and collared at me because I was now jumping on somebody else's poles a Canadian guy's poles and they had kind of figured it out. But after arguing they let me jump on Kirk's poles.
Jake Winder:They weren't going to allow you to borrow poles, correct.
Jan Johnson:That's how political it was.
Jake Winder:Wow, that's crazy.
Jan Johnson:So in the Olympic games I take my first jump in warm-ups from 10 and blow right through the pole. It's the biggest pole I got. Nobody else is going to loan me a pole out there. So I eventually in the Olympic games jumped from seven lefts on those poles and jumped 17-7, which is the highest I'd ever jumped from seven lefts on a pole. Instead of holding my typical long run grip, which is about 15-4 at that time I think I held about 14-6 or 14-4 or something like that.
Jake Winder:Wow.
Jan Johnson:And that's how it can be in this thing a little bit sometimes.
Jake Winder:Yeah.
Jan Johnson:And I was 21 years old and extremely naive still, although I'd traveled all over the world and jumped in contests and had a lot of friends in it. But I think at that time I didn't understand or believe that the politics of it could be that political sized, nationalized or whatever you want to call it.
Jake Winder:And so that was. Was it the 550 plus? Was that the pole? Was that what it was called?
Jan Johnson:Yeah, i think it was at that time.
Jake Winder:And what lengths? just because there's pole vault nerds out there that want to know like lengths and weights 16-foot poles.
Jan Johnson:I jumped on 16-foot poles. Okay, 16-foot poles.
Jake Winder:And you're gripping, you know, in that competition 15-4.
Jan Johnson:I jumped 18. the first time I was holding 15-3 or 4. Gotcha In the Olympic games I was holding about 9 inches lower. Wow, 8 or 9 inches lower.
Jake Winder:And then you took the bronze in that.
Jan Johnson:That's very lucky. I was very lucky. My parents are in his stands. Think about how much money the Johnson spent. My parents went. They took my brother and my sister. We flew all the way over, you know, to Munich To watch this. Yeah, it was. You know the pressure is ridiculous. You know, so you know. and then, of course, the other great thing about my Olympics was then about two days later, I was getting ready to fly back to Tuscaloosa. you know, for school I'm already three weeks late, Right.
Jake Winder:And.
Jan Johnson:Black September happens.
Jake Winder:I was Black September.
Jan Johnson:Well the. Palestinians came in and shot up all the Jewish guys. I was gonna ask you.
Jake Winder:I didn't know, that was what it was called. So yeah, so what was? so? you were in there or you were out.
Jan Johnson:No, i was there, you could hear it. We heard it at night. Steve Prefontaine and Bruce and I are roommates And their dorm Hold on hold on You were roommates with it.
Jake Winder:Was you, steve Prefontaine and Bruce Jenner, correct?
Jan Johnson:That's crazy, that's really crazy, it's hard to get some better roommates than that in history. I'll tell you, i got a better story than all those stories Clip back Geez, oh my God.
Jake Winder:That's crazy. You ever look back on that, steve, and I traveled all over the world together.
Jan Johnson:He was always mad at me because I was better at girl chasing. Is that right? Oh yeah, how so? It's just good at chasing girls Girls like me. That's why I've been married for 47 years.
Jake Winder:There you go, so yeah, so we were talking about the We're in the dorm.
Jan Johnson:We're in the dorm. We're up on about the fourth or fifth floor and the village is this series of dorms, big tall structures with like patios and stuff in between them, and our dorm is probably from here to the end of your wall over there, maybe 200 feet away, and you could hear the gunfire at about two o'clock in the morning. It was scary.
Jake Winder:That's really scary, yeah. So what'd you guys do?
Jan Johnson:Just tried to stay low and stay the heck out of it, big guy.
Jake Winder:So you did-.
Jan Johnson:I left and I couldn't. the whole campus, the whole thing was locked down. You couldn't come or go out of the village. They had all the Munich police in there. Yeah, it was a big shootout, It was ugly. So you're That kind of ended my love for the sport frankly.
Jake Winder:Really.
Jan Johnson:Yeah, i was just eating and so I just seen so too much of that kind of stuff Just wasn't good, just wasn't good at all. Politics and that type of thing. Yeah.
Jake Winder:Yeah, that's crazy. So you're laying in bed and so like in that moment, like who waits up first?
Jan Johnson:Not exactly what happened. We were out and we came back and we couldn't get into the front door of the village. They weren't letting anybody in or out of the village. So we went around to the back and we climbed over to fence and got into the village that way and then went up into our dorm. That's how it happened. That's how I got in.
Jake Winder:That's insane.
Jan Johnson:Climbed over to fence is a chain link fence about probably I don't know eight or 10 feet high. That's crazy. And pole boulders are good climbers, unlike distance runners, gentlemen.
Jake Winder:Yeah, i'll just point that out to you. Yeah, i could see Bruce getting over that thing for ease, bruce wasn't on that one, though.
Jan Johnson:That was me and Pree coming back. And Bruce was already there.
Jake Winder:Do you have any good stories? I'm sure with Pree.
Jan Johnson:Many. I'll tell you that You wanna hear the saddest story. I'll tell you the saddest story. first I was in grad school. This is 1975.
Jan Johnson:This is the day Pree died in the car wreck And I was supposed to go out and I would go to Eugene many times for track meets, usa national championships in 71, olympic trials in 72, other stuff in 73 and 74. And I'd go stay with Pree at his place when I'd go all the time. We'd travel together all over the world. We'd been all over the world together. You know Russia, europe, everywhere, and we were just buddies And it was good. We were very similar, we liked each other, we didn't have to compete against each other, it was all good though Right.
Jan Johnson:And we come back and all right, i'm supposed to go out to the meet out there and I canceled at the last minute. I had something else going on. I'm in grad school at SIU at Carbondale at the time And I couldn't go and he was mad at me big time. I called him up and told him I wasn't coming And two days later the story's in the paper that he flipped his car on this big steep road that you got to drive to get to his place coming out of the stadium and Eugene, and you know that's what happened. And Steve was a great guy. He was kind of a lot of people maybe don't understand it, but he was kind of a partier. He liked to do beer drinking contests. He was into that stuff a little bit more than I And but that's him. He was just a competitive guy that way on all kinds of things.
Jake Winder:And he was like the first, like maybe maybe the last, I don't know. He was just like a track and field rock star. Like he and he like lived that life, kind of. I think that that's what really Yep.
Jan Johnson:There were some great distance runners in those days too. Frank Shorter, Pree, I mean there's a bunch of really US had gotten really really good in the distance running aspect of it. But I just I still pray to this very day that I didn't go to that meet because I probably would have been in that car, His little MG midget, convertible MG midget, And he flipped that thing on top of himself And that's how he killed himself on the turn at the top of that hill And I just thank God that I wasn't didn't go to that meet. I would have been in that car, No question about it.
Jan Johnson:That's crazy, so think about that for a second. Not good, huh?
Jake Winder:Yeah, that's good. That's really really wild Actually. Yeah, i want to go where I'm heading out to my brother's jumping at the US champs in Eugene, nice, and I've been wanting to go and run that Pree's trail or whatever. Yep, kind of just see all that stuff. So yeah, he was. I really enjoyed like growing up. he was a really big hero of mine And he's a great guy, just awesome.
Jan Johnson:Just a fun guy, just a fun guy to be with in college, basically, i mean, that's basically what we were just two college guys. Yeah, i went to Alabama, he went to Oregon, but I went to grad school and he was getting done at Oregon. But that's really the truth of it.
Jake Winder:What about?
Jan Johnson:Bruce. Bruce is a great guy.
Jake Winder:Yeah, are you still in contact? I haven't talked to Bruce in a long time. Ok, yeah.
Jan Johnson:But I guess he's a girl now I don't know. Hey, that's his prerogative. He was a very, very, very serious person. He was 10th in the Olympics and 72 ended to Kathalon. Bruce jumped with Bill Hatcher and I a great deal when he was learning how to pole vault in the early days. Do you know all this? Bruce jumped off the wrong foot.
Jake Winder:No, really.
Jan Johnson:And you could not fix it.
Jake Winder:Hold on. He actually did pretty well off the wrong jump.
Jan Johnson:Jump 16 feet off the right foot, off his right foot.
Jake Winder:That's crazy.
Jan Johnson:That's a pretty cool story. right there, jeez, you know anything about pole vault and that's a good story, huh.
Jake Winder:Yeah.
Jan Johnson:Yeah, but he was such a good athlete And he just got better and better and better, i think over the next four years I try Bruce kind of he motivated me to try to do to Kathalon but I failed at it miserably. I kept getting hurt. And pull my hamstring doing this, pull my hamstring doing that, all kind of stuff like that all the time.
Jake Winder:Not good, Right, I got to give. I was on the phone with one of my friends and mentors this morning. His name's Paul And I was like I'm having a podcast with Jan Johnson today. He's like I competed in the Decathlon against Jan Johnson back in Bloom High School a long time ago, I think it was that blue.
Jan Johnson:That's so funny.
Jake Winder:And I was like the Decathlon. He was like, yeah, it was like the same period of time that Bruce was in Montreal, yep.
Jan Johnson:I've been 76. Yep, yep, yeah, so that story checks out, so Paul wasn't lying to me. Nope.
Jake Winder:That sounds about right to me. That sounds about right to me.
Jan Johnson:I don't know, I just I should have just stuck with full balling and not tried it, but I did try it And it just was a problem.
Jake Winder:It's appealing, like I mean, if you're an athlete, there is some appeal to it for sure.
Jan Johnson:Well, i could I long jump 25, low. I could high jump 6'8. I ran 10, 400 meters. I could run. I was good at running. You know I'd anchor relays in high school and stuff like that, you know, but I just kept getting hurt. This wasn't any good.
Jake Winder:Yeah, Yeah. well, it seems like a sport that would really, you know, put a lot of stress on your body.
Jan Johnson:It's also during the days when steroids was really in the sport. Yeah, they were testing. 72 Olympics was the first game, so they tested people for that type of thing. But I think a lot of people had figured out over the next couple, three years how to get around the testing. Right, my opinion on it. And I really didn't want to be part of all that. I didn't do sport, i didn't do track and field, i didn't do sports with that mentality. I just it was fun to me, i just like doing it Right, right, you know, it was just fun.
Jake Winder:You know, obviously don't have to mention any names, but during that like time frame was there a lot of Walters.
Jan Johnson:A lot of Walters Royden, not that I know of?
Jake Winder:OK, Yeah, I just there was a podcast.
Jan Johnson:There's a lot of the.
Jake Winder:Catholics Royden Hey. Yeah, there was a lot of there was a lot of stuff going on back then And it's just very, i don't know it's hard because it's you know.
Jan Johnson:There were people loaning each other piss. OK, well, maybe that was just for something else.
Jake Winder:Maybe that was for something else.
Jan Johnson:No, no, people were. If you were clean, there were people that wanted to borrow your pee. Really, how much does a bottle of pee go for The Pensapamo Medley? yet OK.
Jake Winder:Just kidding, big guy.
Jan Johnson:No, truly, though. Yeah, I had people asking to borrow my pee in 72.
Jake Winder:Yeah, wow, that's crazy They actually had a little.
Jan Johnson:I won the Pan Am Games in 71 that were in Cali, Columbia, And they were doing a little bit of kind of preliminary playing around with the testing that they were going to do. Apparently, the testing was kind of new in the sport And there was people learning how to get around the system at that point.
Jake Winder:That's crazy. Yeah, did you ever see that documentary Icarus on Netflix? Mm-hmm, yep, that was crazy. Careful with that. Yeah, that was crazy man. That was a really wild one.
Jan Johnson:I just I don't know. To me, high school was the most fun, frankly.
Jake Winder:What do you think changed as you went up from this kind of having a good time high school guy to college, then to after college?
Jan Johnson:First of all, i never should have went to University of Kansas. University of Kansas was the best track team in the country. Bob Timmons was the head coach there who coached Jim Ryan. Jim Ryan, of course, is a great, great, great middle distance runner. The first prep to run under four minutes in a mile. I think he ran 358 in high school in a mile. You know, many-time national champion, couple-three-time Olympian. I think Jim Ryan made it 68 Olympic teams, yeah, in high school And they both went to Kansas And a lot of us went to Kansas And they were national champs a couple of times in Kansas And that's why I went there In the late 80s I'm sorry, in the late 60s so much anti-Vietnam war feeling among young people who didn't want to go serve and people that didn't want to see people go serve.
Jan Johnson:Now my dad served in World War II And he was totally against the war in Vietnam and what was going on that way And I immediately at Kansas got into just a war with Bob Timmons over the length of my hair, how all that was going to be. And every kid on campus is growing their hair out long and wanted that And I wanted to. I just wanted to fit in with campus, but he wanted everybody to have a GI clip. No, no, no, i'm not kidding, really He held me out of a couple of meets, checked my hair. I had to get a haircut before the Kansas relays and have my hair checked before he would let me go on the field to jump that day. And I won Kansas relays that day as a freshman, with my new haircut in April of 1969.
Jake Winder:So you got the haircut.
Jan Johnson:I did get the haircut. I was jumping great and I wanted to go jump in the meet.
Jake Winder:I didn't want the haircut Right right, yeah, that's interesting, yeah, so then obviously that didn't probably go over very well, and then you transferred to Alabama from there.
Jan Johnson:Well, a year later I'm jumping a foot higher yet And the Kent State shootings happen. We're at a National Guard shot four students dead on campus at Kent State in an anti-Vietnam War protest at the University of Kansas at the end of April 1970. Somebody blew up half of the student union. There were several other schools that had major problems around the country like that And schools all across America shut down. Colleges shut down a month early That year.
Jan Johnson:A month early we were still going to go to nationals. Our NCAA nationals were going to be at Drake University And I had jumped 16, eight or nine that year And I was one of the top college guys And Tad Scales, our high school teammate, and Bill Hatcher and I would practice by ourselves And during those six weeks or eight weeks my hair got longer and longer and longer And Bob Timmons never saw me. And then I show up at the NCAA meet for prelims And he's like, oh my god, we can't let you jump like this. So I promised him I would go get a haircut My parents are there too, by the way And the meet gets a huge rainstorm hits, so they end up moving to pole vault from the outdoor to the indoor. It's the outdoor meet And we have the meet indoors And I set the world record at 17.7. And I never got the haircut And he was so pissed off at me.
Jake Winder:It was ridiculous Really.
Jan Johnson:Yeah, that's crazy.
Jake Winder:Is that crazy? or what? That's wild. So you did that at Drake. That was at Drake University At that little tiny in that little tiny, little tiny field house. I jumped in there.
Jan Johnson:And you run off the turn.
Jake Winder:It's downhill, it's a bank turn.
Jan Johnson:You run off the turn, yeah, in that field house. It was cool though My parents are right there. It was so fun. Oh, i bet It was a really cool crowd All standing on the floor, yeah, and here I was with my long hair And Bob Timbins is standing over in the corner And you could just see the smoke coming out of his ears. Man, he was mad. He was way mad, but he couldn't do anything about it And I had a great day.
Jake Winder:Yeah, you can't really complain after that.
Jan Johnson:Then he kicked me off the team We went to. He took five or six of us on a trip to the Caribbean. We went to Port-au-Prince, martinique, trinidad, tobago. We went to four or five places. He just did little track clinics. I jumped 16-4 on Army Cots on a grass runway actually at that clinic. I got some great pictures of it And a couple of us went out one night. This is about two nights before the tours. So we were out there two weeks and we went out one night, you know, or drank a little bit and all that kind of shit, and we got back late And he kicked me off the team at the Miami airport for going out.
Jake Winder:That's crazy. He kicked me off the team.
Jan Johnson:So then I called up and he let me back on the team And I go back to KU. I kind of didn't want to go really, but I went anyway for fall semester And a guy named Jack Scott had written a book about the problems that were going on in college and in high school sports with dress and hair and what you believed in and that type of stuff. Anyway, jack Scott came and made a speech at KU And we went out and talked to Jack Scott a bunch of us, several of us and we all got kicked off the team. That was my final time getting kicked off the team for going and talking to Jack Scott. Wow, isn't that crazy. But that's how the politics were, that's how the cultural revolution was And that book I wrote The High Flyer and the Cultural Revolution. That's really what that book was all about telling those stories.
Jake Winder:Yeah, that was a crazy time back then, just for the country as a whole.
Jan Johnson:That's right. Well, it's kind of crazy in the country right now a little bit for different reasons a little bit, but we're having some crazy times right now. Was that one guy that was the president for a while, donald Trump, trump, or Trump, trump, or Trump, trump or Trump, something like?
Jake Winder:that. Okay, I shut up on that one now. But moving on from that, I didn't want to.
Jan Johnson:Are we getting any material here, by the way?
Jake Winder:Yeah, two minute break. Yeah, we'll be right back. Roger that, yeah, she, my daughter is. She's a like a dancer, but she's just got this personality, that's just like crazy personality And she went up to her lunch supervisor at lunch.
Jan Johnson:Yep.
Jake Winder:And was like, Hey, can I have the microphone? to sing the lunchroom a song. Oh, i was like Holy cow. The confidence of a little kid man. Oh, and how old is she? She's eight. Wow, just just like all, sing a song to everybody in here.
Jan Johnson:That's really even know how to sing. That's awesome.
Jake Winder:I'm like Well, that's awesome, You know, keep, keep that fire going. But yeah, so I guess we can talk about your daughter. How was that coaching Chelsea and just say you know, actually we were off the off the podcast talking about her. kind of start in that thing is pretty crazy.
Jan Johnson:If you want to, I think I think she'd watched in scene pole vaulting a lot, you know, because of the club, but she never pulled folded, She is a little kid. They'd come and play, swing on a rope ball all the time, playing the trampoline all the time. You know, I'm kind of a gymnastics more type coach, I guess in some ways. And yeah, she'd placed second or third in a hundred meter hurdles at the Cali State meet. You got to be blazing fast to do that And the 300 hurdles she's third or fourth a couple of years in a row. And then after Shaila set the high school national high school record, Chelsea comes in and she goes. you know, you think I ought to try that. I'm like, Yeah, you try it. It's like November of senior year. She plays soccer and volleyball also, So she would come home after school and we'd start just doing a little short run, pole vaulting a little bit.
Jan Johnson:And when track season started she just got better and better and better and ended up jumping 13, six, winning the California State meet in her first year of pole vaulting. She'd probably been pole vaulting six or eight months at that point And it went to UCLA and ultimately jumped what? 15, seven, I think. Second right Second in the world championships. But our family's been that way. My son, you know, jumped 16 to in high school and never practiced almost never.
Jan Johnson:He's a surfer. That's crazy. You know he was into surfing and I was in and I'm into surfing And I didn't say anything and he didn't really want to pull vaulting college and the guy was, you know, tall and slender and you know, could have been real fast. But and then of course, tim sat in the National Lendor High School record 16, seven in 1974. We've had some pretty good pole holders in the family, in the Johnson family. Absolutely, that's pretty decent.
Jake Winder:Yeah, it's really really, really decent. Yeah, that's I'm worried. I don't know if worried's the right word, but I'm I don't. People always come up to me, as they probably did you whenever you were a young father, and it's like are your kids going to pull vault? Oh man, you know like they come to you and say, man, wait till your kids pull vault. I'm like I don't know.
Jake Winder:Like I don't. I don't want to force them to pull vault. If they want to pull vault, then you know they've got a great platform to do it from. But you got to find that thing you like to do, right, right, and I just, sometimes I'm like I want to save them from the heartache.
Jake Winder:Well it's a good point. You know it's hard And and I remember what it did on me and how much of my life I dedicated to it and how much heartache I dealt with. You know, just trying to be the best that I could possibly be, yep.
Jake Winder:But then I go back and I'm like, well, they're going to do that in something you know, you're going to be driven towards something, and part of being driven and being the best at what you being living up to your potential is dealing with heartache and let down and things like that.
Jan Johnson:Yep, that's right. And so many of the other sports, i think. I think playing volleyball for Chelsea was great. It's good for the jumping, it's good for those type of things. Playing soccer was really good, you know, clay was the same way. Tim was a really good sprinter in high school. I think he was second in Illinois State Meet in senior year. Those things, those activities, make you better, give you a better basis, you know, for poleballing.
Jake Winder:That's what you want to do. As an athlete, yeah.
Jan Johnson:As an athlete, yeah I ran cross country in high school. I just liked it. It was fun, i liked it. So I don't know. You know, i didn't really want to go play football or anything like that. I just wasn't interested in that type of thing, right? So, but you just got to find something you like to do. If you like to do it, if it's fun, then you keep doing it and maybe you can get good at it.
Jan Johnson:Yeah, i don't know Absolutely I mean, i made money My red shirt year when I transferred from Kansas to Alabama. oh, i shouldn't even say this.
Jan Johnson:Maybe I'll shut up I traveled to so many meets by myself because I'm not on a team And in those days you had to red shirt and everywhere I went as a world indoor record holder. They're paying you cash under the table every single place to the LA times indoor meet, to the San Francisco indoor meet, to the big meets they had in New York, to the summer I spent in Europe. You know right, I mean it was awesome, Yeah, but it was just but, in those days you were supposed to be an amateur.
Jan Johnson:You know, today it's a. It's a different thing.
Jake Winder:Right.
Jan Johnson:They would pay you meet expenses and part of that would be your benefit. If I jumped really high someplace, they'd pay you a bonus. It's just the way it was And it's taken. it took the sport what? 40 or 50 years, from a rule standpoint, to catch up to that.
Jake Winder:Yeah, Can you pull this just a little bit more centered? and there you go, Right there. Perfect, Perfect, Yep, There we go. Yeah, That's one thing that really I think personally, as you know, you could probably see with you know kind of what we're doing at Ryze and what. What we're trying to do in in the sport is the discussion around like money and around business. Because in order for, personally, I believe that in order for the pole vault to continue to progress and get better and better and have better facilities and better polls and better research and better this and better that, I think that there has to be a larger number of individuals that are interested in the business of how things can, can function business wise and people, people. Pole vaulting has always been not always, but it's kind of always been like a you should, you should volunteer your time just for the love of the sport Yep, You know people do that, okay.
Jake Winder:Well, you know, the thing is is like with your, with your sky jumpers camps. I think that was really the first time in America where it was like, all right, somebody's going to go after this thing and they're going to go after it. It's good, They're going to charge money, but you're going to get a lot of value for your money and we're going to make it to where the education of pole vaulting and the experience of pole vaulting is opened up to more people and things like that. What are your thoughts on just where pole vaulting is has been in the past, where it's at now and where it should be going in the future?
Jan Johnson:I think because of clubs there's a lot more people out there. They kind of have a better idea of how progression should work and how the how that type part of the education should work. I think that I think that part's really important. I would hate to see it ever become a club. Only sport, kind of like gymnastics is in some places I guess a little bit. You know, i think it's good because we have improved the injuries or still injuries. It still goes on a little bit but but you know we have that problem a little bit still. But it has gotten better. And I think I think it's good that kids at pole vaulted when they kind of get done with their, with their competitive career, like to go coach a little bit. I think that part's good too. That's how you get it passed along, it's important.
Jake Winder:Right, it's really important. You know what inspired you to start sky jumpers and just your whole business club. You know that whole thing.
Jan Johnson:In Alabama and at Kansas. There was kids at schools in the area that wanted to learn how to pole vault and would come to Tusk to Alabama to jump a little bit, just jump, just you know, at our practices. And Kansas was the same way And I think that that just turned into the next step, having a club and having camps. And I think I might have had to first. Maybe Bill Falk had the first one.
Jake Winder:It was either Bill Falk or I had the first pole vault camps in America And I'm pretty darn sure I had the first pole vault club in America And I mean it's still going strong today, you know, i mean yeah, so I would I would, you know definitely say that you're the godfather of no, for real, of what all of this has become, because somebody like me could look at your situation and your club and what you've done with it And it could say it's possible. Yeah, good, it's going to overheat. Again Five more minutes, right, right.
Jan Johnson:We should talk about. we should talk about all my work on the and cushioning the plant box. It'd be a good thing to do, then, For short on time a little bit.
Jake Winder:Yeah, It might be a good thing. Well, do you? if it's going to overheat in five minutes, do you just want to do like a decent break? Oh my gosh. Okay, All right. Well, we'll just get back to just really quick. So I think that you're the godfather of what all of this has become. You're the first person who took it and proved yes, you can do this and you can be employed, You can do this as like your livelihood and it can flourish. And it's crazy to see where it's gone now And I think it's going to. It's just at the very beginning stages of what it's going to be.
Jan Johnson:Yeah, i think you're right. I mean, i'm 73 years old, i'm retired. I do it now as a hobby, the truth is, you know. But yeah, i've been extremely lucky that for a decent part of my income and I have other things I do, but Paul Baldwin has been there and I've been able to stay involved in it. The way way it has happened, that part's awesome.
Jake Winder:It's really cool. Yeah, because it's now. it'll be cool. at the end of it You'll be able to see where all of that, all of this stuff, came from. It came from just a small little thing that you were doing putting out sky systems and showing like, hey, paul Baldwin's a good time man.
Jan Johnson:It's a lot of fun. Making sky systems videos was super fun. We watched a couple sky systems tapes at the camp in Ohio last week and I sit there now and I look at it and I go, wow, how did I do that?
Jake Winder:You know, it's insane.
Jan Johnson:The bloopers, the other stuff that's in it. It was just fun to me.
Jake Winder:We loved it. There's one in there I think it was the 72 Olympics with the big payback James Brown song. I forget which sky systems it's in.
Jan Johnson:Get down with your bad man.
Jake Winder:But that I used to watch that on repeat every time before I was getting ready to go to the camp.
Jan Johnson:You're cracking me up, big guy. Yeah, i always had the love for rock and roll too you know, and putting rock and roll on the tapes was a lot of fun. It was easy.
Jake Winder:Yeah, so what are you working on now?
Jan Johnson:I filed and won a patent a few years ago for a cushioned plant box and we've done a whole bunch of work on it. Where we've. Well, there's several problems with the box. First of all, the box grinds the poles up. You can see it on your box over here and over here where all those scratches are in the back, and you look on every single pole that's out there And it doesn't matter if you tape the bottom of the pole over, put a plastic piece on it, it's going to chew the bottom of the pole up And I've seen several poles break on the bottom. So I want to get rid of that. If you go around the country, particularly in the freeze thaw parts of America, um, elevated front lips have caused a whole bunch of accidents.
Jake Winder:Yeah, that's terrible.
Jan Johnson:Absolutely horrible.
Jan Johnson:And the way that the some of the manufacturers design their box. There's a box now and I'm not going to name the company that makes it but there's a box now where a pole slide goes down like this and they got a metal front edge on it That's about two inches long, like that. So when the pole falls onto the runway it's hitting on that metal edge. Every single time I've seen I've seen a bunch of those around the country. Well, that's just weakening and making a spot on the bottom of the pole where the pole is going to break. And, of course, breaking the bottom of the pole is one of the worst places you can break the pole, because typically when the pole breaks down there, then the end of the pole catches on the front of the pit and you got about a 1000th of a second to let go And if you don't, then you're going to land short.
Jake Winder:We had two of those happen back to back two years ago at one of our miles. Oh my God.
Jan Johnson:Yeah, right. So I want to lower the front edge of the box between three quarters of an inch and one inch below the surface of the runway. I want to have a flexible sidewall and bottom pan integrated with a hard end plate and plate where the pole rotates on the bottom. So the boxes that we're installing where I am is quarter inch plate steel But we've taken two inches off of the top of that plate steel and all that is rubberized around the surface And I can send you guys info on this.
Jan Johnson:And if you want to do an install here, maybe we'll come and do one at some point. We've probably put 40 boxes in, maybe more around the country in different places. People want to do it. Steven's points got one where we do camp next week. I wanted to do one up there and just see how it survived in near weather.
Jake Winder:Is this the same one as the Skydex box? This?
Jan Johnson:is not the Skydex box, okay, no, i know I want to see it where the entire perimeter, a measured perimeter around the box 33, but basically the size of a box collar is cushioned Right So you don't have to have a box collar. The collar is in the ground You can.
Jan Johnson:I want to make it where the collar can fit on top of this box. I want to make it where the dimensions and the size of this box are very similar. Certainly, the depth of the box should be the same. We don't want to change that, so that's what we've done. So this is basically cushioning the sides in the bottom. We know we can reduce the impact attenuation 90% on the bottom of the box.
Jake Winder:Impact attenuation Head injury criteria. I told you earlier that it's on concrete.
Jan Johnson:It's probably 10,000-hit. 3,000-hit kills you. We can take the impact attenuation down on the bottom of the box to under 1,000-hit And on the side walls.
Jake Winder:3,000 is the mark that we need to be under. That would be the best Right, because you said 3,000 is the one where it hits catastrophic.
Jan Johnson:That's right, We want to lower that front edge. but if you think about it, if you lower your box front edge an inch, then you lose 3 or 4 degrees in bed cavity.
Jake Winder:We want to make a bed cavity bigger.
Jan Johnson:We don't want to make the bed cavity smaller, we want to make a bigger. Set of poles aren't grinding on there, so I want to make the angle of the back of the box between 108 and 110 degrees. Right now it's 105.
Jan Johnson:We're lowering the front edge. If you lower the front edge you lose bed cavity. We want to open that back up a little bit and it can go beyond 2 or 3 degrees. It can go all the way to 110. That's what we're jumping on at my house. That's what we're jumping on at places that I've installed them.
Jake Winder:And the back of the box is a higher degrees, then Does it roll easier?
Jan Johnson:I think there's just less abrasion.
Jake Winder:Right. So the one thing that I would say is that I talked with Don Rarick, who's one of the engineers at Essex. He brought something up to me that was really crazy. I had no idea. The way the profile is is they don't hit the back of the box, Which?
Jan Johnson:is very interesting. I can show you at the end.
Jake Winder:The pole, like the bottom of the pole, doesn't hit the back of the box. Now I haven't put a super slow-mo video camera at the back of the box yet to see if that's happening, but I can show you afterwards that there still are some little bit of nicks and marks, but they're pretty clean at the end. So anyway, i can show you that afterwards.
Jan Johnson:For instance, let's say we're just doing a swing up drill, right.
Jake Winder:It would have to.
Jan Johnson:And we're going to land on our back in the pit.
Jake Winder:It would have to hit Sure. It's rotating right on there, so would you rather it?
Jan Johnson:rotated on a hard metal edge. In many boxes it's a sharp metal edge that it would rotate on. Right, or would you rather it was rotating on two inches of rubber track surfacing on that top edge?
Jake Winder:That's a great point. Yeah, because bending the pole is one thing, but then you forget about straight pole. So the straight pole has to hit.
Jan Johnson:You can walk right down here. Every plan might go somewhere. You can see where to pull. The abrasion is on y'all's box. That abrasion goes down three inches below the top edge on that box. And every other box in America is almost exactly the same.
Jake Winder:And those pole clips on the bottom. They don't do that much, They don't help against that Like a whole clip.
Jan Johnson:Like when you put a piece of plastic on the bottom or something. Yeah Well, you just made your bend cavity smaller by doing that too, right?
Jake Winder:Especially if it's like a thick piece of PVC or something.
Jan Johnson:So we played around with using rubber track surfacing, which is available everywhere People are going to install this box. It's going to be track people, track installers that already have this material. So we did a whole bunch of experimenting over 10 years on how to do this. We put pieces of rubber track surfacing the shape of the entire back of the box in the box And planted on it and pole vaulted like it. We did all kinds of different testing on it. I can send you guys.
Jake Winder:If you want to look at this stuff, you should take a look at it. I would obviously into it.
Jan Johnson:You give me your email address and I will send you five or six pictures. Are we rolling? I can send you even some videos of it where people can see what goes on with this thing.
Jake Winder:Right.
Jan Johnson:And it's like I was saying earlier. I have pole vaulting several days a week on my property in my backyard Right In California. I want it to be as safe as it can be. I don't want to have a big accident like that at my home, but I love coaching pole vaulting, and so that's really why I've spent so many years and so much money And I showed you all those little prototypes that I was talking about. It's amazing, yeah, in an effort to do that, and one thing in that led to the next, you know, and it just went down the rabbit hole.
Jan Johnson:I just kept working on it. And it just ended up being hey, we want flexible sidewalls and a bottom pan with cushioning underneath it, not concrete. We want a good way to be able to attach it to the runway sub base. That's why we bring the little things out on the side, so you have something to screw into the sub base with. And we have to change the end plate angle a little bit because we're going to lower the front edge a little bit.
Jan Johnson:When you lower that front edge an inch or so that you lose two or three degrees at the end plate. We want to make the bend cavity bigger, not smaller.
Jake Winder:So that's how many people do you know that know anything about pole vaulting, that are actively working on safety solutions?
Jan Johnson:Good question, i don't know any. Okay, i know people I've talked to to let me come and install their cushion boxes by cushion boxes at their place, because they see it and they go oh yeah, now I see what he's talking about. So that's, that's, that's. And I think probably most of them have been in California There's a few in the Midwest and a few in the East too And usually I come and help them and do an install and show them what to do. But I didn't want to push this thing until I saw that it had the longevity that it needed to have.
Jake Winder:That was my last. That was my concern was there's actually a couple, a couple things. That are three things that came into my mind whenever we were talking about this is number one went So the pole will still hit the back of the box, the top edges, yeah, yeah. Does the rubber like? because when, when you plan a pole, it hits the back of the box, it rolls through the Senate and it kicks out to the side. Have you seen any? because of the rubber surface on the back of the box, does that create any friction?
Jan Johnson:whenever the we haven't seen a problem with that. We jump on our boxes with the rubber there It's the same basic general texture as this rubber here on this runway And then we go jump at other places that are not. We're gripping the same handhold heights.
Jake Winder:We're jumping on the same poles.
Jan Johnson:The poles are going into the corners, and then we've also, you know, like I said, we've curved those out. We want to curve out those areas a little bit on the bend cavity, and I'll send you pictures of what that looks like. I think that's important because that reduces the amount of abrasion or amount of rubbing that goes on on that, and I've got videos of what it looks like. You know too So, but you know you can walk right over there and look at your boxes, just like we did a minute ago, and you can see what's going on there, right?
Jake Winder:It's everywhere. How much of the pushback on something like this is? because it is going to be too much of a hassle Or too much money, right? How?
Jan Johnson:much of the pushback.
Jake Winder:Is that as opposed to because what I'm concerned about is that somebody will like hopefully it's your solution, Hopefully your solution, you know, works and checks all the boxes. I don't pun intended, Hopefully it works. But then if you get a product that works, I'm nervous that it won't be adapted, not because it's safer, but because manufacturers don't want to produce a new box, They don't want to go through the headache and that it'll cost too much money.
Jan Johnson:I don't think the manufacturers should even should have a say in it. I think the people that own the facility should have the say in it. Do they want a safer place or not? Do they want something that costs a huge amount or not? We have to keep the cost down. We have to make it done with materials that are commonly available. We have to make it where any coach or not any coach, but many coaches, parents, grounds crews can do the install. 99% of the places you're going to have to be able to operate a jackhammer. You're going to have to go rent a jackhammer and probably have a sludge hammer and chop out that concrete around the edges. I can send you we have many videos and pictures of how it's done.
Jake Winder:I would love to see that I can send you guys that stuff.
Jan Johnson:Gee whiz. I have a welding shop that has built our boxes for us. We're building the two pieces together the flexible side walls and bottom pan welded onto the end plate. It really doesn't cost very much to build them. It doesn't at all. It needs to be able to stay in place. You see the current boxes we have. You can't put them in rubber playground mulch. Why?
Jan Johnson:Because, there's no way to attach them to the front edge of the runway. Every box that's out there. Now they have a couple little flanges on the sides where the concrete holds them into place from the middle. We had to get all that worked out too.
Jake Winder:That's what we've done. Do you have any preliminary pricing on what the project cost to a high school, the project or the box?
Jan Johnson:Is a grounds crew going to do it or is a contractor going to come and do it? That's a big question.
Jake Winder:That's a very big question.
Jan Johnson:You know I'm building the boxes for about $160 each. They weld the box together and then I glue the pieces on the sides in the bottom. Like I said, you're going to need about five bags of that rubber mulch Four and a half bucks a bag. You're going to need two bags of concrete, as you're going to put concrete behind the back end of the box where it goes.
Jake Winder:Which would be under the pit. The concrete would be under the pit.
Jan Johnson:Well, the concrete comes up to about two inches from the top edge of the box, and then it's cushioning on top of that and then the top surface.
Jake Winder:Right, okay, okay.
Jan Johnson:I got you.
Jake Winder:I'm going to maybe put it into like a tight package that somebody could buy. That's up to the manufacturers.
Jan Johnson:That's what I've done, Right? I send people a box and I send people a rubber parts if they want it. If they don't want rubber parts, if they have their own rubber track surfacing then they do it that way.
Jake Winder:Yeah, yeah, right, yeah.
Jan Johnson:Yeah, there's options there. Yeah, very important. I mean, if a guy yeah, you know, it's just, it can't cost too much. We were talking about Skydex. I'm not a fan of Skydex and the reason is is because Skydex has cups on the top of it. If you look at Skydex, it's clear plastic with all these little cups on the top. We don't want the cups to fill up with water and freeze in the winter in Stevens Point, wisconsin, right, and then how long is it until it all thaws out? We want the water from the rain and that type of stuff to matriculate into the ground. That's what we want, and we want those materials to provide cushioning, like shredded rubber playground molds does. It's perfect for it. So I had to watch this for a long, long, long long time in a variety of places to see if the longevity works.
Jake Winder:If it did what I wanted And what are your results from that? like the longevity, like in your place in particular, like that you've been using.
Jan Johnson:Well, the ones we're jumping on right now, one is seven years old and one is six years old, and they look awesome.
Jake Winder:And they spray paint the bottom of the box once in a while.
Jan Johnson:But that's it. I'm very happy with how it's happened. I'm very happy with how it's happened. We went through plastic. We started out using plastic. I thought plastic was going to be the best to do the sides in the bottom. Gee whiz, there's a lot of pole bowling in my house. We wore out the plastic ones in a month. We're to pull a strike. So then and I showed you those pictures then I made a box where the plastic was just on the bottom but not on the back where to pull strikes. Well, we wore that out in two months.
Jan Johnson:Right, because it's grinding right there. Yeah, absolutely. So that just made me switch to metal, to galvanized metal at the right gauge, right. Right, we experimented with 20 gauge, 22 gauge, 24 gauge metal. We had to take a look at all those metals and measure them to see what they are in inches and metric, so we could put them on an ASTM thing I'll send you guys the whole thing You can read the ASTM that I've written and you can look at the poles Working around the bend cavity and there's no reason.
Jan Johnson:The only problem I would say with bend cavity is if you make that angle too big. We experimented from 105 all the way to 115 degree angle. Guess what?
Jake Winder:Around 112 degrees, the pole hits and climbs the back, starts to slip a little bit, climbs up the back a little bit.
Jan Johnson:So then we experimented with putting ribs on the back of the box so it wouldn't climb.
Jake Winder:That was a failure. Well, this is an interesting plan with it. It's incredible And I think I just go back to that thing about the you know just, you know people can do your job better until they got to do it, and the thing is you know the box collar situation and whatever else you know. I really do applaud you for actively putting the rubber to the road and just actually trying, just trying to move it forward. I appreciate that.
Jan Johnson:You know, the manufacturers have tried to make a cushion box for over 40 years. They were trying to make cushion boxes 40 years ago and they gave up. They all tried it with plastic and they did those type of things. We had cushion boxes that I remember from when I was in high school and college, but they all became failures And I think the industry just decided you couldn't do it. They gave up. Well, you're not giving up. I didn't give up. I looked at the dynamics of what was going on.
Jake Winder:Well, you have a deep understanding of what needs to happen and what can't happen and what should happen and things like that.
Jan Johnson:I think there's some people that do that type of work for the manufacturers and maybe they haven't had much experience with the actual thing of footballing. You know, it'd be a hell of a lot safer right now if we just dug a hole in it in their own way and filled it up with sand, right.
Jake Winder:I hate to say it, but it's true. You know, it would be safer Yeah.
Jan Johnson:Nobody wants to do it probably.
Jake Winder:Yeah, yeah, right, that would be interesting to try that.
Jan Johnson:Anyhow, that's the box thing. You'll see, I'm just happy to try to improve safety and try to improve poleball education. Obviously, i'm still going out running camps a little bit. That's part two. I'll come here and run a camp with you guys sometime, if you want?
Jake Winder:Wow, get that going, it'd be fun to do. Yeah, yeah, i really appreciate it.
Jan Johnson:I need a high bar and rope fault and a trampoline, but outside of that we'll be okay. Sorry boys, I was just kidding about that. I was just getting about that. I started to look up at the ceiling, Whoops.
Jake Winder:We've been wanting to get a rope here for a long time. We'll talk about it afterwards.
Jan Johnson:They told me I had a rope fault in the side yard when we lived on Colema in a Tascadero. That was our first rope fault. We pulled the whole thing up when we sold that house and moved to our other house, Just pulled the stands up, moved it to a new place and put it in. I moved it around two or three times. In some ways that was no different than what's going on with the box. We were just experimenting with how to do rope faulting because it was obvious that it could be so similar Oh yeah, Imitatively to what we do. It's a great exercise. Every place I go run a camp, we usually do rope faulting.
Jake Winder:It's the best. It's a really, really good exercise. I just really, to be honest with you, haven't figured out where to do it all.
Jan Johnson:I just look in here. I could do it, but it would take some work. We'd have to drill some holes in the floor and put a frame up.
Jake Winder:Yep, that's what we'd have to do.
Jan Johnson:You know, but I'm really good with jackhammers. We'll talk.
Jake Winder:Well, Jan, what else have you got going on this summer? If anybody was interested in going to your camps, do you have any dates Going to the?
Jan Johnson:camp at Stevens Point this week.
Jake Winder:Okay.
Jan Johnson:And then going home for a few weeks or two and then I have a big camp in Kutztown, pennsylvania, kind of mid-July, and then my camp at my place I think it's the 16th or 17th of July And we're having an ASTM online meeting about all this stuff we've been talking about come up in July. I'm a little bit busy this summer, but you know what I just love doing this, it's just fun. I don't want to be sitting home bored doing nothing. Right, you know He's still surfing. All I do is go surfing and riding bikes. Yeah, i surf a little bit. I ride bike a lot of bit. Central Coast of California is cold water, maybe a little sharky in places. There's been some problems that way, but I'm still surfing it a little bit And then I ride bike a lot of bit. I mean it'll stay pretty fit and not have injuries, so that part's been really good.
Jake Winder:Good for you.
Jan Johnson:I lift weights with the kids a little bit. Yeah, i don't do any running. My wife is really a great runner. Janny was a great middle distance runner at Cal Poly and ran marathons professionally and did really well. That way Won several big marathons back in the day.
Jake Winder:Wow, so we have fun that way.
Jan Johnson:Yeah, she won St Louis Marathon a couple times and a couple others. Yeah, really did good. That's awesome. We have good genetics for sports in our family.
Jake Winder:Yeah, and I think Trey and Chelsea have got some pretty good genetics.
Jan Johnson:Oh my God, i'm sorry, trey Hardy, chelsea Johnson.
Jake Winder:Yeah, that's going to be insane, so hopefully, hello.
Jan Johnson:The kids come to our house right In their six, four and two in a six year old every time they come. Can we go in the backyard and pull a bolt? now I want to swing on the rope. No we'll see, that's going to be huge. We just have to live long enough now. Yeah, i want to see what their kids are able to do.
Jake Winder:I hope they're doing well. That part's awesome. Jan really appreciate it And hopefully we can do this again And maybe, i don't know get a camp going in the future. But I appreciate your time.
Jan Johnson:Thanks for having me, and all your effort too. Ok, buddy. Hey, thank you, thanks for having me, it was really fun.
Jake Winder:Absolutely. It's the One More Jump podcast. See you guys later.
Jan Johnson:Rock and roll 10-4. Thanks for having me.