38. LIVE From Reno W/ Philippe Collet

First ever One More Jump LIVE Podcast!  What an awesome experience it was to be on stage at the Reno Pole Vault Summit with the French pole vaulting legend Philippe Collet.  I had never met Philippe, but our conversation rolled like we had known each other for ages.  It was so interesting to listen to the contrast of a life lived pursuing the pole vault in France compared to the the US.  Thank you so much for your time Philippe, and a big thank you to the Reno Pole Vault Summit for trusting me with the mic in front of your audience!

Thank you so much to our sponsors!!!

PVR App - The future of pole rentals: If you are in the business of renting pole vaulting poles, you need to see what PVR can do for you! Check out the links below for more info and to see PVR in action.

PVR Website
PVR Instagram
PVR Youtube

Want to help support the One More Jump Podcast? Click the link below to become an episode sponsor!

https://www.risepolevault.com/omj-episode-sponsorship/

Visit RISEPolevault.com for all things pole vault!!! Whether you are looking to take a vaulting class or compete in a competition at our the state of the art RISE Pole Vault Training Center located in Joliet, IL, or wanting to use one of our many services ranging from pole vault business consulting to virtual coaching in the vault, risepolevault.com has got your covered!

RISE Pole Vault is now selling all three major pole brands including UCS Spirit, Essx, and Pacer. Email in to support@risepolevault.com and let us get you set up with some new poles!

Transcript

Jake Winder: (00:00)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the One More Jump podcast by Rise Pole Vault. Today's episode is a very unique one. First time experience for me, we did a live podcast at Reno, like on a stage with like a bunch of people in the audience and lights shining down on us. It was really, really cool. And we did that podcast with Philippe Colay, who's a French vaulter and, and French coach. He's kind of a legend, or he is a legend in the game. And yeah, it was just a unique experience. And Chris Chapel had reached out to me, Chris Chapel's u c s Spirit big dog over there, and he was like, let's do a live podcast. And I was like, heck yeah. I was like two or three weeks out and I was like, I don't care. You don't really have to prepare for a podcast.

Jake Winder: (00:53)
You just show up and talk. And that's what we did, showed up. Talk to Philippe on stage, captured the audio. And now you are listening to our live podcast from Reno. One more thing before we get started with this episode. I just wanted to say thank you so much to every single person that was involved with the Reno Pole Vault Summit. That is just an incredible event. It's crazy at times and stressful for people running it, people bringing kids and athletes there. There's a lot of stuff that goes into it, but man, is it worth it? It is so worth it. And if you've never been there, you really do have to make a trip out there. And every year I'm like you know, well, it's a lot of work and this and that, but it's worth it. Just trust me. And yeah, just thank you so much to everybody who is involved with that. Yeah. So enjoy. One more jumps. First ever live podcast with Palu Kalay.

Event Host: (02:15)
Hey,

Event Host: (02:16)
Everybody's, get back to your seat. Stop your conversation. Ready to start here. We got a unique experience today. We've got a podcast happening up here on the stage, and we've got two fantastic presenters, Jake Weiner and Philippe Coag. Philippe was in a late French pole vault from 19 83, 3 through 1994, with a personal best of 5 94 meters, 19 five and three quarters. He's a two time Olympic trials finalist World Cup champion and top finisher in the European Championships during his 11 year career. He's the former French National Pole Vault record holder, currently ranked number four on the French all time list. He's now coaching his two sons, which have a little bit higher to go to meet his pr, but they're pretty close. Felipe will be interviewed by Jake Weiner and they'll be discussing critical fundamentals of pole vaulting and development. Jake's a former lead pro vaulter who competed for North Central College in Illinois, where he set the school record with a jump of 18 feet a quarter inch. He's a two time NC two, a division three national champion, and he's also corner and coach of at the rise vault or at, he's, he's the coach at Rise Pole Vault. Yep. Here you

Jake Winder: (03:42)
Go. All right, sweet. Thank you. Yeah. So, like he said, I my name is Jake Winder. I'm the owner of Rise Pole Vault. I also host a podcast called The One More Jump podcast. Round of applause. Does anybody listen to the podcast in here? Okay. Very nice. So this is the first time that I've ever done this. I've never met Philippe before. This is a first live podcast that I've ever done, and it's gonna be super laid back. We're just gonna have a conversation. We have a, a topic, the critical fundamentals, critical fundamentals of pole vault development. We're gonna kind of stay on that and then we're we'll veer off, see where we're, see where we end up. That's the cool thing about podcasts is we just try to make it organic and and have fun with it. So just to kick it off with something light, I've always struggled with the pronunciation of pole vault in French. What is it?

Philippe Collet: (04:39)
Hello first.

Jake Winder: (04:40)
Hello, ?

Philippe Collet: (04:41)
Hello. Hello. Yes. Hello. Hello. Hello. Nice to be there. Yeah. First time I came is probably 25 years ago, and then a few other times. So how you say Paul Vault in French? [inaudible]. So a,

Jake Winder: (05:00)
So a parish,

Philippe Collet: (05:01)
So a

Jake Winder: (05:02)
What's I thought it, so, okay, so alo perish because I

Philippe Collet: (05:05)
See so, so with jump, so perch is a pole.

Jake Winder: (05:09)
Gotcha, gotcha.

Philippe Collet: (05:10)
Very cool. Cool. It's also a fish.

Jake Winder: (05:12)
It's also a fish. . Okay. All right. Well, I've always wanted to know how to pronounce it. So, first question what is the difference? So there's a big difference in track and field in Europe and track and field in the United States. You have such a great platform for, just a great system for developing young people into elite athletes. And then they get to progress to become elite athletes and, and have really good support, it seems, from our perspective, like you guys have, have it maybe a little bit, a little bit better over there, opportunities to make more money, things like that. So what is the difference in the upbringing of a European pole vault and an American pole vault, in your opinion?

Philippe Collet: (05:55)
Okay. that's an American question because you say let's talk about European compared to us. Yeah. You know, it's many, many countries in Europe and, and Okay, yeah, good point. And it's many, many different system. And if you compare poor vault culture and poor vault history, for example, from France and England, which is quite close. Good point. Just the channel, but it makes a big difference. Mm-Hmm. when we, when we are talking about Paul Vault Paul Vault in England, which is in Europe too, not that much, but okay. Let's say it's in Europe.

Jake Winder: (06:38)
I think, yeah,

Philippe Collet: (06:40)
They, they, they probably have in the last 40 years, probably have Okay, five guys who jumped five 70, which is 8 18, 18, 8,

Jake Winder: (06:54)
No, 18,

Philippe Collet: (06:55)
Eight quarter, yeah. Five, six guys. And in France we have like statistic for five 70, I think it's 40.

Jake Winder: (07:08)
Wow. Pretty impressive.

Philippe Collet: (07:11)
It's, it's so

Jake Winder: (07:12)
Big difference. So the the point is, is yeah, I lumped Europe into a whole big category. No, and I should have parted it out a little

Philippe Collet: (07:19)
Better. You cannot, I cannot talk about European system because there is no European

Jake Winder: (07:24)
System. Okay. So let's talk about the French. How are pole vaulters raised in France?

Philippe Collet: (07:31)
We pole vault in French is, is really in the track and field culture. We, we, on track and field, France has few discipline where we are good for very long, very long time and, and some discipline where we are not good. Mm-Hmm. At least bad. And for some reason we are good on technical discipline for a long time. Okay. Like pole vault, like triple jump, like hurdles. Okay. That's the, the, the three main discipline. And for pole vault, we have this culture for a long time. And we have a kind of special system. So as a French guy, it's in our, in our mentality. We always complain. So we always complain about our system, but we have to say, and we know that we, we have a, like a very good system too because we have a lots of pole vault for a very long time.

Philippe Collet: (08:45)
And why? Because our club systems could make it happen. So club system is based on volunteers mm-hmm. , but in all sports of course government pay for sports, it's not like in us with actually if you don't practice at high school and then a university it's, it's, it's difficult. And if you are not at the top level or world level after university, you just have to quit. Mm. For us it's different. When you're young, you're supposed to learn sports at school, it's now it's just you supposed to, cuz actually you don't do sports, but parents put their kids to clubs. Any sports, you go to clubs and then you can start, for example, track and film and, and, and it's possible to pole vault in many, many clubs. So it means that we learn pole vault and we can learn pole vault early mm-hmm. .

Philippe Collet: (09:57)
And that's also why our systems makes that we have so much pole volter. We have many pole vaulters. I mean we have a big, like a big pyramid, so many pole vaulters, young pole vaulters, male, female, and, and then the pyramid till the top is of course like, like this. But we, we are, we are, we are still good with eye level. Our weak point is that we have like this year number eight in France is five 70. Geez. So we are a small country. I mean six, seven times less than us. Right. So number 8, 5 70 is, is is very good. I mean we have a good generation and, and, and also the oldest is Reno, 37 years old, but over five 70 we have also the word junior champion. So it means we have 10 over 10 years.

Philippe Collet: (11:02)
No, 15 years. Right. Or 18 years a big difference. Right. And, and so we have some world class. The the, what is difficult with our system is that we missed sometimes just the last step. Mm. To have few guys over six meter. Cuz that's the goal. Yeah. If you want to get a medal, okay. You have to jump six and more of course. Right. So we have we have many jumpers and what's makes that works with us is that for very long time, we often say that French pole vault, French technique or French culture is, is that we play pole vault. Hmm. We play pole

Jake Winder: (11:47)
Vault. Your son I sent a direct message to your son like two days ago and just asked him, you know, like, I've never met you. So I was like, I want to, you know, what's a good thing to ask your dad type thing? And he mentioned, he said, ask my dad about the correlation between fun and performance and, and playing with the pole ball. So it was interesting. So he, he understands that as well. So when you say play pole vault, does that mean that you're, when they're young, you're not putting a lot of pressure on them and maybe slowly introducing them?

Philippe Collet: (12:22)
Yeah. Not, not not much pressure, but it's more that we, we, we, we have the chance to, to make kids jump, but to make kids jump, you need poles and you need the right pulse. If you compare with some European other country, like Russians or you know, east country. Yeah. long time ago they could not play pole vault for different reason, but they could not play pole vault because when they were young, because they have no pulse to bend. Right. Okay. So in our system, we have poles, we are lucky because clubs can buy pork also, because I do my best. I'm the, the, the spirit distributor for 30, 30, 33 years now

Jake Winder: (13:09)
Same

Philippe Collet: (13:10)
As, so I already tried to to to, to do it. Right. So right. Yeah. They have poles, so and they can bend pole.

Jake Winder: (13:18)
So when you, when you say young young vaulters, like what, what is an age? Like, like your sons for example? Or just like on average, when does a pole vault start to learn how to, to do

Philippe Collet: (13:29)
In France, in the club? I would say that until 10 years and before could start like 13, 12. 13, 13 years old. Okay. And now we try to start earlier,

Jake Winder: (13:49)
Earlier than that. Yes.

Philippe Collet: (13:50)
Wow. actually a few examples show that it's could be interesting to start early.

Jake Winder: (13:58)
It could be what? To start early.

Philippe Collet: (14:00)
I mean, if you look at Mano for example. Okay. He start early. He did , but like Reno Reno, he start very early too. Well,

Jake Winder: (14:12)
How old was he when he started?

Philippe Collet: (14:14)
His father was Paul Volter.

Jake Winder: (14:16)
His father was, yeah.

Philippe Collet: (14:18)
I didn't know him. So when he was a kid, like probably 6, 7, 8, he, he start pole even if it was not practicing pole, but he start pole. Mm. And when you start young, the, the, the right movement and you understand how to make it, it's so easy compared to Right. Start at 17 or 18 years

Jake Winder: (14:40)
Old. Yeah. There's a concept that I talk about sometimes. I grew up, my dad was a a pole vaulter as well. And then he was a very successful collegiate coach. And I did not like the pole vault whenever I was younger. I didn't like it at all cuz I got drug to track meets all the time with my dad and had to sit there for hours and hours and hours. But then I eventually liked to pole vault and I, I accelerated really quickly. I started in eighth grade and I think it's because of what you said, I already knew how to pole vault in eighth grade. It's just that I hadn't done it yet because I had been around it and I had seen it so many times that I knew how to do it in my head because I grew up around it. And then once I started I was like, well, I know how to do this. I just haven't like, done it physically yet. Yeah.

Philippe Collet: (15:29)
And one more example is, is about my kids. Or even me, my, my father was my coach. Hmm. So I learned pro vault. I was probably 12, 13, but just learn, I was doing some other things. I was a runner and then I was decathlete. I get national team, junior Delan, but then I came finally to po vault. I was 17 years old, but I knew because I learned five years

Jake Winder: (16:01)
Before you started when you were 17? Yeah.

Philippe Collet: (16:03)
Started Paul Vault starting only pole vault.

Jake Winder: (16:08)
Oh, okay. Like only Paul specialized in specialized. Okay,

Philippe Collet: (16:11)
Got you. And my sons, for example, my sons Matt and Thibo they learn, they, they start learning PAVs with the grandfather in the backyard when they were like four or five years, one small stick and, and jump on the small mat. So they did it like when they go to holidays to the grandfather, grandfather, grandmother. Okay. They, they, they play pole vaults like this, but they were not on track. They were playing soccer was a shame for me.

Jake Winder: (16:46)
.

Philippe Collet: (16:47)
And really it was really difficult because they, they were, it is at that when they were like 12, 13, 14, they, they were really in, in the football, you know, freeway and at home we did not talk about poles. And I didn't, I never pushed them to to poles. But one day Mau said, ah, to be better on, on soccer, I have to improve physically. So I will go on track with my friend and improve my speed, improve my strength. And I say, maybe, maybe So go there. So you start one time in a week and the next week, ah, yeah. Can I come back? Yeah, no problem. And after a month he said, you know, I think I'm gonna quit football and I will, I will, I will start track and field, but then you have to coach me. Of course I cannot coach train with some, somebody else say, okay. And you know what? I discover why he came back on track, the main thing. Okay. He understood that maybe he has got some qualities, maybe he could really get some fun. But the real reason is that compared to football, it was in a group and it was many girls .

Philippe Collet: (18:20)
So it was really nice. And it was, I mean, it was, it,

Jake Winder: (18:24)
There was more girls on track. They

Philippe Collet: (18:26)
Have, yeah, they have good time. And finally of course, okay, he start pole vaulting and he start late and tibo, which is four years younger, the same, he was in football. And and finally he said, yeah, me too. I want to pole vault. So he was lucky to start like 12 years old Uhhuh . And it helps and it's makes a big difference. If I compare Tbo mature, the ability to understand and, and, and to get the right technique is so much easier when you are 12 than when you are 16 mm-hmm. . So we have so many example like this, and now it's even more easy. Why? Because we have the kids, Paul, the kids spirit, spirit kid, Paul , you know that the small blue, I mean it's, and it's just amazing for the kids. It's, it's, it's, it's allowed us to start younger with girls and, and, and boys at the, the track club at, at the pole vault activities.

Philippe Collet: (19:35)
And they, they, they start to ban Paul very quickly. And then when you start to ban Paul, you just think you can go to the star mm-hmm. . And, and it's become really funny. You have so many ways to play, so many ways to get fun. But you need poles, you need equipment, you need to bend and you need to, to, to improve and get easily on, on bigger pole. But that's really helps the system in France. And long time for, for old guy like me here, probably your members, some very thin black poles named lurk. I mean it was really heavy

Jake Winder: (20:18)
Poles like a steel pole,

Philippe Collet: (20:20)
Right? No, it was fiber, but you can bend them like hell.

Jake Winder: (20:25)
I have one of those in my backyard. Yeah. I swear on my life. Yeah, it's okay.

Philippe Collet: (20:29)
It was really heavy.

Jake Winder: (20:30)
Does it have a steel pole tip? Like a metal pole tip? Yeah,

Philippe Collet: (20:33)
That's, yeah. Yep. So that's was lurk.

Jake Winder: (20:35)
It's really, really heavy. Like really heavy.

Philippe Collet: (20:38)
Really heavy. But you can, you cannot br break this pole. No, no. So you can band it like l and it's,

Jake Winder: (20:48)
You jump

Philippe Collet: (20:48)
Know. Oh yeah, I learn, I learn. I learned Paul, I

Jake Winder: (20:51)
Wish I could show them

Philippe Collet: (20:52)
What I learned with that. And, and, and, and I remember, I mean, I was like this, I was really short, but I could bend the pole. And that's why finally I get so much pleasure and, and, and finally I I become a pole vault. Yeah. And today we have different kind of poles, but we, we, we, we could help the new generation to start early. And if we ha if you want to, to be a champ in the next years, you of course you need to start very early. You cannot, you cannot be a six, 10 or 20 feet jump. Or if you stall pole vault at, at, at 1617, there is no way, even if you have all the qualities, physical qualities, you, you need ability. You need to learn, you need to feel the technique. You need thousands and thousands and thousands of jump. So now we, and I, I really want to, to make the kids start young. And also because it's a game. It's funny, it's, yeah, you play, you play, you get lots of fun. You can make the training really interesting because it's so many way of practicing. It's so many ways of jumping from upside, jumping the sound, jump anywhere right in your backyard. I mean it's, it's,

Jake Winder: (22:18)
It's a good time. Yeah. so to get to maybe a little bit more technical stuff. So I was talking with Tim Riley last night on the bus coming back from the event center. And I just noticed while you were talking, you, you talked a lot about bending the pole and then, you know, you used that, that motion with that left arm and French vaulters are really known for really driving their hands way up into the, you know why? That's what I'm wondering. Yeah, that's what I'm wondering

Philippe Collet: (22:48)
Because French are short.

Jake Winder: (22:50)
Ah,

Philippe Collet: (22:51)
Okay. I mean that was

Jake Winder: (22:52)
Another thing that your

Philippe Collet: (22:53)
Son said. Yeah, but it's, it's the, it's, if you look at the statistic, you take the the 20 best French all time and you, you make the, how high they are. I mean, we are very low,

Jake Winder: (23:06)
Right.

Philippe Collet: (23:07)
Compared to the word average, very low. So when you are low, you need to have some other qualities.

Jake Winder: (23:13)
I didn't want to bring that up option. I didn't want to bring it up. I didn't want to be rude. But your, your son had said, he had said like, ask my dad, like why is it, how, how are French vaulters able to have such a densely, you know, elite populated group and be shorter in stature? And so, so that, so that does, that is something that you really try and push is like, hey, we have to have a very strong plant. We have to drive that pole really deeply into the pit or else we won't be able to do what we want to do.

Philippe Collet: (23:43)
Yeah. I mean, when you are I dunno in, in feet inch but I'm 1 76, 1 75, so I don't know how I am I, but five, if you want to grip five meter, you better run fast. Yeah. And you better drive your jump right there for sure. Okay. Chris, if he takes the same grip than me, I mean his left foot is in the box. Mine is 15 right. Feet back. Okay. Right. So I have to find some, some way. So what does it mean? It means that, yes. Okay, we have some big guys, very few, but you need to run fast. Mm-Hmm. , you need to drive, you need to have big bend. If you are not tall and you really need to open what we say, open. Okay. Open.

Jake Winder: (24:46)
Open. Like open up into it. Up

Philippe Collet: (24:49)
Into, okay. The angle.

Jake Winder: (24:50)
Gotcha. Gotcha.

Philippe Collet: (24:51)
Really open the angle. So run fast. Plant very high. Try to go high in the jump, but just wait first.

Jake Winder: (25:05)
, I'm curious. So back to what I was talking with Tim Riley about if you guys don't know Tim Riley, he's the coach at Northwest Pole Vault. He coaches the two twin phenoms two young ladies. And he sometimes will skip the whole straight pole phase of teaching a kid how to pole vault like on a straight pole first and day one, he'll start them bending the pole. And you had talked about just how important, you know, you were talking about that we have these kids poles that we can bend now that they can bend at a younger age. So is, is there a phase that you teach where they don't bend the pole and then once they progress through that phase, then they start to bend the pole? Or do you try to get 'em on that bend pole right away?

Philippe Collet: (25:53)
One, one thing, I I I, I really don't know if I'm right about that, but we all learn drills on non bend poles. Why? I mean, we had Bka Bka, he was a very good friend of mine. He is 10 days same age than me. And like, we grew together far away. But , I, I jumped so many times with Sergey and few Exceptional always behind. Okay? Mm-hmm. . But Sergey was, I mean, he was the, the goat. Oh yeah. And, and he has the Russian culture and who, who makes the literature, but non exercise and mostly the Russians. Mm-Hmm. . But why? Also because they had no poles to bend .

Jake Winder: (26:54)
Good point. That's that's a good one.

Philippe Collet: (26:56)
They just had big poles

Jake Winder: (26:58)
Yeah.

Philippe Collet: (26:59)
That they could take on. Long approach.

Jake Winder: (27:01)
I did not if you about that at all. That's crazy.

Philippe Collet: (27:04)
If you, if you look at pet Uhhuh philosophy and so on till I would say 10 years ago, never makes the the guy jump on small pole. Right. Six steps. No, not Israels. Yeah. We've bent. No, I mean they learn with non flex pole mm-hmm. . So, and then of course we all understand how interesting it is to be able to make some exercise without flex. Because without flex, no mistake. Or to just kill your back, your sugar, your head . So you have to learn both. But you're right on the, on our French way of learning pole vaults, we mostly go on flex and then after you can come back and together or together, you, you, you can learn how to jump without flex. Because without flex you learn the right thing for our how to do with the harms. Mm-Hmm. , how to jump with flex, you could have poor harms. Right. And pole jump.

Jake Winder: (28:28)
Yeah. It exposes a lot of issues that you have if you don't, if you don't bend the pole. So, so back to what I was saying. So like, when, when do you start to teach? Like, so let's do this first day I come to you as I've never pole vaulted before. What are you taking me through? Like what, what sort of progression are you taking me through?

Philippe Collet: (28:56)
I first, first, like, like everybody does, I think, I mean you, okay. You have to learn how to carry the pole. You have to learn how to put the pole in the box and you have to learn how to plant, fill, fill the plant without any speed. And, and then you have, we, we make some, some exercise or games where you jumped from up to the pit. Okay.

Jake Winder: (29:25)
Oh, from a platform. The platform. Okay.

Philippe Collet: (29:28)
Yeah. Okay. So all that kind of stuff. But if we have the, the opportunity and the possibility, because if we have the equipment to make field flex right away at the first training session, we do it. And also it helps to keep the, the real vault, you know?

Jake Winder: (29:54)
Mm-Hmm. .

Philippe Collet: (29:55)
Right? It's important because you have so many, so now so many guys and girls who say, okay, I want to balls, okay , but you, you need very fast. I mean, you have the, the one who get a bit scared and and, and you cannot keep them. So other way you have too much people. You cannot manage the group. So get the flex very, very soon at the beginning. I think it's also interesting because the kids understand very fast, what's, what's happened, what's going on, what's

Jake Winder: (30:36)
The feeling? So whenever you do get to that point where it's time to start bending the pole, do you teach to re to drive that bottom arm? I'm, I'm, I'm interested in the, the whole bottom arm thing. It's a very controversial, people debate it all the time. Whether you should plant like this and then, and then hit back, or whether you should start, you know, just driving that arm kind of into it or up and into it. Is there a specific way that you teach it?

Philippe Collet: (31:05)
I don't dunno. I dunno if it's different now from here. But we all show about the same, I mean with the horns. Okay. My problem is I cannot really show because I have shoulder problem. But the idea is to bend the pole correctly is not to be there. Mm-Hmm.

Jake Winder: (31:28)
.

Philippe Collet: (31:28)
Okay. Right. So it's really to open both app and then use the flexibility of shoulder. Right. And in opposite way, you also have, but it was quite long time ago on French, on some with French, with some French coach, that they wanted the kids to bend the pole. They, they gave the information that left arm should drive the bend this way. Mm. But I think it's wor it, it's wrong. Okay. No, don't drive with left hand in front. Yeah.

Jake Winder: (32:10)
Okay. Right. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree 100%.

Philippe Collet: (32:14)
Just up. Don't see the hands. It's something I always said I'm

Jake Winder: (32:17)
Don't see the hands. That's a cool cue. I like

Philippe Collet: (32:19)
That one. I'm coaching, I'm 60, I'm coaching since age of 16 years. Wow. I'm always been coaching and, and when I was athletes I was coaching. And when I retire I was coaching. And I get some good athletes. I I, I got an Olympian guy in 2 0 4, and then I, I probably have like 20 guys who jumped over five 30 mm-hmm. , so kind of experience, but more with, a lot more with men than, than than women. But I have some, yeah. Always say the same, you know, hands, what do you do with your hands?

Jake Winder: (33:06)
Mm-Hmm. .

Philippe Collet: (33:08)
And for me, boom,

Jake Winder: (33:10)
It's just

Philippe Collet: (33:13)
Plant in the, on the right time. I mean, you have two steps to do that mm-hmm. , but it's just up and don't see your hands. Don't see your left hand actually right hand. If you see it, it's,

Jake Winder: (33:24)
You see that you're in and

Philippe Collet: (33:24)
It's probably too late.

Jake Winder: (33:26)
Shade . It's probably, but

Philippe Collet: (33:29)
The idea is really to be able to go up and use the flexibility. I mean, that, that was my, my technique.

Jake Winder: (33:37)
Yeah. That's, that's very similar to what we

Philippe Collet: (33:39)
Teach. And, and of course it's kind of the way I, I try to learn kids, but for example, it's interesting because macho and Thibo don't jam the same, they did not start at the same age. And for example, macho is more here than Thibo. I used the same word, I used the same exercise, but they did not get it the same way because they did not have the same ability because they didn't probably did not start at, yeah. They did not learn at the same year. Time 12 yeah. 12 and, and 16. And you cannot change things when you are, although it's more difficult.

Jake Winder: (34:21)
So. Right. I should have covered this at the beginning. What is your role in France? Like, so do you, do you coach at a club? So you coach at a, at a home club? And then are you involved with like the national?

Philippe Collet: (34:35)
Yeah, I'm, I, I'm, I'm, of course I'm volunteer. I mean, it's, I'm not a professional coach. Even if I coach every day, 365 Wow. Days a year for yours. But it's not my job. I also have unofficial status for the, the federation because I'm very close with my teammate Philip Noko. Mm-Hmm. , I mean, I took him in my suitcase when he was, when I was a jumper, . And he was a jumper, but he was younger than me. So, and

Jake Winder: (35:08)
If he, he is Reno's coach. Yeah. Okay.

Philippe Collet: (35:11)
Yeah. And, and, and, and actually he is now also my kids coach because Oh wow. Philip Noko is, is coaching at Cleon. We are living in Renovo. And the, the Olympic Center for Paul Vault is, is in Kla Ofone. So you have in the group, they are six guy together. And that's makes a fantastic group. That's awesome. And, and what we were saying about

Jake Winder: (35:42)
I just wanted to know what your what your role was. Yes. In,

Philippe Collet: (35:46)
In everything. So, so, so no, nothing official, but I when, when Thibo and Ma as to to jump in, in big meets or I go with them and we split with Philip. I mean, sometimes if Philip cannot be with the team, or I go mm-hmm. and I take care of the guys. I mean, it's happened a few times that I, I went with Reno also competition and beautiful training camp together. Nice. But it's, it's, it's not my job.

Jake Winder: (36:21)
Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. So if you were to pick three things with the technique of the pole vault, like from your, you're standing at the end of the runway until you land in the pit, what three technical things do you think are the fundamental things that have to be done in order to be successful at the pole vault?

Philippe Collet: (36:49)
For me, which I mean one parameter, which is one of the key, key one, I mean, before me, I don't remember the name of the, the coach. I mean,

Jake Winder: (37:01)
Oh, prior to this

Philippe Collet: (37:02)
Presentation, yes, he explained anything about physics and study about speed and, and et cetera. So we all know that. But, but for sure if you want to jump high, you have to run fast right into the box.

Jake Winder: (37:19)
So running, so

Philippe Collet: (37:20)
Running, run, running is running is important of course. It's just running, it's, it's not running fast just to run fast. I mean, you have to, to be fast in the box to jump. It's not only running, but speed is, is a really, really important part of the, the performance. So works a lot on, on, on, on, on, on the speed the ability to, to be easy and relax and, and the acceleration. Cuz we talk, we often talk about speed. Okay. How fast it was where, how, how, how did you use the speed? Right? in, in my business, I I, my company, okay, I sold this sport like three years ago. But I was involved and we made, we were probably the first to do a lots of study on, on pole vaulters, on the field, on big competition with speed.

Jake Winder: (38:23)
Okay.

Philippe Collet: (38:23)
So we used, probably many people knows, but Opto jump. Okay, what is that Opto jump? It's, you know, bars of, of cells where you get contact and flying time.

Jake Winder: (38:37)
Oh. So you

Philippe Collet: (38:38)
Can, the yellow, you know the, the yellow

Jake Winder: (38:39)
Bar and it can measure like ground force and all

Philippe Collet: (38:42)
That. So I start doing some measure on pole vault and triple jump in 2000 oh two mm-hmm. . And then with the federation, I signed a contract and we start 2 0 12 and it's even if not me anymore, but we still have and still make measure on old youth championship every year. Mm-Hmm. . So we have thousands and thousands of datas where we get the speed, we get the length, we synchronize that with ice speed radar, and we have video at the takeoff. Okay. So we have a lots of information that as and, and, and we have from the young guys and girls. We have the evolution. Right. Every year. So we give the data to the coach. That'd be nice. And, and, and, and, and they can see what's happened. Cuz of course you can compare me and you, but Okay. That's not the more important. Right. It's important is compare me by me every year. Right.

Jake Winder: (39:50)
Okay.

Philippe Collet: (39:50)
Yeah. And so we, we worked a lot of a lots of, of, of, of speed ability and speeds that and when you talk about speed, yeah. How do you use it? Because is it acceleration? Is the speed dropping et cetera, et cetera. So right. To jump high first work very carefully. And on the, on the running technique and on the speed, then you have phase two, which is the plant so important. Right. And that's where we,

Jake Winder: (40:30)
We can talk about if we go back to the run. Do are there any specific cues that you use, like you tell your athletes about just the run?

Philippe Collet: (40:40)
We use different mark and we in France, we, we we are, yeah. We, we really take care about the last six steps. Not, not so many other poor culture or use of this, but we are use of this last

Jake Winder: (40:56)
Six, the last steps. Six steps. Yeah.

Philippe Collet: (40:58)
Last six steps. And it's makes you normally, I mean, when you are used to practice and jump, I mean it's a key moment. It's a key point where you are at that point and, and, and you should be able to modify if needed. And, and it's also an alarm point, right. Because from six to the plant it's about one second and two. Yeah. Okay. Right. It's really short time and, and you have to do something when, when, when you are in this position.

Jake Winder: (41:39)
Gotcha. So as far as cues go, like like stay up tall, keep your pole tip up at, at the, at the back of the runway, are there any like coaching cues that you tell your athletes, lift your knees up or, you know, any, any sorts of things that you, that you tell them technically to do on the run?

Philippe Collet: (42:02)
All, all this is, is is what you are doing every day with the k with the athletes. When, when they learn pole vaults running with the pole out of the, the pit is really important. And, and, and you have to, you have to do a lot. And it's so many ways to learn running with a pole because with the tops, you could see how small difference they have. They are able to, to have with or without pole. So a pole is, is should be the extension of your body. So it should be very easy for you to run with a pole. So you, you have to spend time with the pole, right?

Jake Winder: (42:47)
Hey, you have to sprint with the pole.

Philippe Collet: (42:49)
You have to spend time with the pole. And even if you don't jump that much, because if you look at a, a regular kid who's coming like two, three times a week at, at, at the training, okay, you, you try to make him jump like twice a week. But a top class athlete, Paul Volter, how many times a week does he jump? Two times usually. Yeah. Not more. So it's like 20% of the training is technical on the bit and 80% is something else. But still you, you, you can have many things with the poles. So some, some like to do things with the poles out of the pit and, and some don't need to. But but when you build, when you build the training with kids, of course I think it's really interesting that they spend time with the pole doing many, many

Jake Winder: (43:44)
Kinds

Philippe Collet: (43:45)
Exercise. Yeah. But spend time with the poles.

Jake Winder: (43:48)
Gotcha. And then, so then you, you, so we got the first one and then we go into that plant and takeoff, you had mentioned, you had said something earlier that you had said, you have two at talking about the plant. You have two strides to do this. So I've always just, I've always thought about it over three strides planting the pole. So is do you teach it or do you think about the plant as over two strides? I don't know, maybe I just picked on. Yeah.

Philippe Collet: (44:17)
Maybe I'm, I'm wrong. But, but, but from, if, if you hear two steps before the plant, I mean, right hand is here, I'm on my left, boom. Right foot on the floor. My right hand is just up to my shoulder. Mm-Hmm. and last step, my hand is up. Right. I cannot tighten my, okay. I

Jake Winder: (44:39)
Do it. Oh, don't hurt yourself. .

Philippe Collet: (44:42)
I do it like a lefthander. So lefthander, lefthander I should

Jake Winder: (44:50)
Jump with,

Philippe Collet: (44:50)
Right? Yeah. Okay. I should, should be there. Okay. You got it. Yeah, two steps for me it's, it's like two steps. Even if of course you have to prepare you, you have to prepare to be prepared, but,

Jake Winder: (45:04)
All right. Looks like we're getting up here, folks. So, so yeah. So I, that, that's a good point because I, I think I must think about it as the preparation phase too. So like, whenever I think about it, we're, we're back here and then we're coming through and then boom, boom like that. So, I don't know, it's just a minor, minor thing. And, and I guess maybe I just include the little preparation part on that, on that left prior to the, to the right. Okay. So we gotta have a little bit of confrontation on here. It makes, makes it exciting. . okay, so after we jump off the ground and we're, we're driving up into that pole, what are, what are the cues that you're, you're thinking about after you get through that take off the

Philippe Collet: (45:51)
Plane? Upside down.

Jake Winder: (45:52)
Upside down. Get upside

Philippe Collet: (45:54)
Down when you left the ground. Nothing to nothing to wait or

Jake Winder: (45:59)
Right. It took me too late. Yeah. Just start going, start

Philippe Collet: (46:02)
Going. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's the second part, which is really important is already, I mean, you run, you plant, you take off and right after the, the hand of the shoe leave the ground, the idea is ready to rug back. So rug back is many, many option, many techniques. Mm-Hmm. , you, you have the, the stray rug back, you have the egg rug bag, . Yeah. Like, I like to say egg because when I mean like Mando and, and, and Reno for example, when they rock back, you cannot imagine that they could do more, you know? Right. More tight. It's not possible.

Jake Winder: (46:45)
Yeah. They get very condensed. Like a little ball.

Philippe Collet: (46:48)
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So that's one, one technique. Then you have the frog, but we don't see it that, that much. But it was kazak casa

Jake Winder: (46:56)
Ca. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a good one. I

Philippe Collet: (46:58)
Liked watching him. Okay. Different technique, but the ID really, the ID is leave the ground and rock

Jake Winder: (47:05)
Back. Yep. And how are you, you,

Philippe Collet: (47:07)
How are getting there? You have to be in the pole and then you work in the pole.

Jake Winder: (47:10)
Right. Okay. So you're thinking about really pushing and swinging at the same time. Yeah. So that you can get into that rock back. And so you don't, you don't really, you're okay with different people doing different things, some people doing the egg, some people doing tear us off, you know, straight things like that, that doesn't bother you.

Philippe Collet: (47:31)
Yeah. You know, I, I often say the rule is on pole vault, which is interesting. It's, there is no rule.

Jake Winder: (47:38)
I like that. Get over the

Philippe Collet: (47:39)
Bar. I mean, you have Greg Lanis.

Jake Winder: (47:43)
Yeah.

Philippe Collet: (47:43)
Like this. And you had and you had one American who was really tall and you have li which is a gold

Jake Winder: (47:53)
Gut. Oh, Jeremy Scott. Yeah.

Philippe Collet: (47:55)
Yeah. So, I mean, everybody could jump. That's what is really nice with pole vaults, everybody, you can be very short or very big. You can jump 19 feet.

Jake Winder: (48:06)
Right.

Philippe Collet: (48:07)
But you don't jump 19 feet with the same technique. Mm-Hmm. , because it's just not possible. Depending your body composition, how tall you are, how big you are, how heavy you are, how fast you are. So it's so many way to jump, so many way to run back. Then you can use different image with the guy, because what I will tell you, you to rock back won't work with

Jake Winder: (48:35)
Right.

Philippe Collet: (48:35)
The other, because not the same ability, but the idea is still the same. Right. Rock back. How could you do that anyway? You have some ways, some keys to do it better, faster, to be stronger in the pole, to be more efficient, to have the good contact, be strong there right hand on the right hip whatever.

Jake Winder: (49:03)
Right. Yeah. So that's something that I was curious about too. So oftentimes I, I coach, I work with a lot of kids and then I work, I coach my brother Luke as well. Oftentimes when you're teaching a young person how to pole vault, either they'll have a very strong plant and they won't be able to swing, or they'll have a very weak plant and be able to swing very well. Is there anything that you do to try to blend those two things together so that you get a good strong plant and a nice swing? That's a really hard question. Yeah.

Philippe Collet: (49:42)
, because there is so many answers and it's just depending of the, of, of the ability of the athletes. A boy, a girl, 13 or 18 strong or not strong. So actually, I don't know how to answer your question.

Jake Winder: (49:59)
I don't know if anybody, does anybody know how to answer that? That's like, one of the hardest things that I struggle with, with working with young people is like, you know, just either they, they really block that plant out and they can't get upside down, or, or they have a very weak plant and they can't

Philippe Collet: (50:16)
Tough. Also, one thing we did not mention, and which is maybe the, the biggest point for pole thing, if you don't have this, you cannot, you cannot jump. Is this right? And it, it's, it's make a lots of difference on the jump. Right? Are you able to just pH No. Let it go. No, no, no. How would you say? No fear.

Jake Winder: (50:43)
No fear. You know, you know Garrett, Garrett Starkey. Yeah. Yes. So on our, on our podcast, on the podcast,

Philippe Collet: (50:49)
I jumped with his father.

Jake Winder: (50:50)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you did. He had a saying that I really thought was really hilarious, and he said, you just have to throw your life into the pole. And, and I was like, that is just like a really good way of saying just you have to commit and you, you can't be afraid to really commit to, you know, swinging upside down and, and doing that. That's probably, to be honest with you, now that I think about it, that probably is one of the big things that, that those people can't do is they, they can't scare themselves enough to get really upside down, or they haven't yet. So anyway, 10 minutes, ladies and gentlemen. Did you want to do a q and a? Okay, cool. I mean, I thought that was a really great, great little bit. Is there anything else that you wanted to maybe talk about or

Philippe Collet: (51:45)
No, like No, not really. We can't talk about Paul for

Jake Winder: (51:50)
Our, we, so we could be here for a long time. My podcast sometimes goes for like three hours. Because there's just a lot, a lot to talk about. But I got through all the things that I kind of wanted to talk to you about. I really, really appreciate it. And and you guys, I, I will say this. When I was growing up as a young person, my dad was a pole vaulter and, and he always would tell me that the French, he loved French pole vaulting. Cuz you guys were just so successful. And and it's just a very amazing thing. You guys should be very proud of what you guys have done over in France, so very nice. All right, so we can open up the floor here to any questions if Philippe they have any questions for Philippe or myself, doesn't matter. Mental blocks or like mental health. Okay. Yeah. So like having problems running through and not taking jumps up. They have any tips?

Philippe Collet: (53:06)
, I would love, I would love have tips. I mean,

Jake Winder: (53:10)


Philippe Collet: (53:13)
It's

Jake Winder: (53:13)
So

Philippe Collet: (53:14)
Hard. Yeah, it's so hard. We know so much people, so much girls, but not only, and boys who, who are so sad, not, not, not be able to jump because yeah. They are scared. And that's that's a real problem on pole vault. I mean, it's, it's amazing when you are not able to jump, you're not able to take the 0.2, 0.5 bigger flex. Yeah. So you are dead because you, you can be strong. Like hell, you could, you could have shape of your life if you don't take the right pole. Yeah. If nothing happened,

Jake Winder: (53:56)
You have to have it mentally. You have to

Philippe Collet: (53:57)
Have it upstairs. Yeah. So you really need to have the mentally. So then of course there is some small how do you say, tricks? Or

Jake Winder: (54:07)
Tricks, yeah. Tricks, tips, cues.

Philippe Collet: (54:10)
Yeah. Whatever. I know I experiments one thing, it works very fine, but actually it's not it's, it's, it's for athletes who, who are scared to, to take long run.

Philippe Collet: (54:29)
So I experiment the fact that okay, mostly girls, but some guys also who, who can jump on 12 or 14 steps, but they cannot even imagine to take two more. And I use some small way of to make them jump on 20 steps. And actually it works really, it works on training then after on competition could be different, but, and the deal is not to jump on 20 or 22 steps. Of course. I mean, it, it's, it's, it could be crazy to think that if you jump on 20 steps, you, you're gonna jump high, right. If you just only need 16. But there is some way that it, you can make anyone jump on 20 or 22 steps.

Jake Winder: (55:16)
So it's like you kind of overcompensate for the issue. If they're having problems taking off or getting off the ground from 10 steps. Yeah. Then you could have 'em try to get off the ground on maybe a small pole from exactly 16 steps

Philippe Collet: (55:31)
Or whatever. Yeah. And, and even

Jake Winder: (55:33)
Longer. And even longer. So even longer. And then it makes that seem a lot like less scary from, from a shorter one. Yeah, of course. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. I, I will recommend a podcast. My, our podcast for Steve Hooker's podcast was really, really good on that. He ran through for three years, almost exclusively ran through for three years, which is very disheartening. And he explains how he kind of got through that problem. And it basically was that he started, he had to start over like a baby and, and just start learning just from the very little one step or whatever. And then he gradually built himself back.

Philippe Collet: (56:16)
So Yeah, for for sure. I mean, when, when, when the problem happened, the first thing is you don't have to quit. You don't quit. Try, try and accept, accept the fact that, okay, you cannot make it. It's, it's too long run or too big poll. Okay, go back. Yeah. Start again on four steps. Take a small poll, make it get confidence. Take two more. Yeah. Don't, don't quit. I mean, the only way to to make it is to try. It's to try, it's to fall. But stand up and try again.

Jake Winder: (56:53)
Find something that you can do. Find something that you can do. What? That's a good question. How, how many, how many times, so if somebody were to run through or not take up a jump, how many times will you let them do that before you change something?

Philippe Collet: (57:19)
I get older so I get more patience . But people, people know, they know me as a hard, you know I, I'm not, I'm I'm not really kind.

Jake Winder: (57:36)
Oh,

Philippe Collet: (57:38)
Not that I get off quickly. Right. But I need to say the truth.

Jake Winder: (57:43)
Yeah.

Philippe Collet: (57:45)
So I use some words, some sometimes who doesn't make them smile more. Actually it helps to, to cry usually . But to be honest when, when you, you, I, I usually, I use the, the term of [inaudible] you know, you have one joker.

Jake Winder: (58:12)
Joker. Yeah.

Philippe Collet: (58:13)
Okay. So after one joker, I get mad.

Jake Winder: (58:17)
You call it Jo run through a joker. Yeah. I'm calling it a joker from now on. 100%. Yeah, 100%. I, all right, I have another question.

Philippe Collet: (58:26)
Right Over. Don't I don't do that too much. I mean, we have, I mean, we need to, to add them to go.

Jake Winder: (58:32)
We gotta get it going. I always do too. All right. I got one more question over here.

Speaker 6: (58:37)
First off, Fe, Simon Arkel says Hello. My question regarding playing pole vault, I love it. I, I speak that about that all the time with the kids that I coach. But playing pole vault isn't exactly like a small child or a 10 year old playing basketball or playing soccer. Okay. Cuz it's easy to pick up a basketball and throw it at a hoop. It's easy to kick a ball into a goal to another person. But in pole vaulting, there's some technical involved. And sometimes I get too involved with muscle memory and they're doing the wrong thing, and I get worried that it's gonna become a bad habit, and then they're gonna have a horrible time breaking that habit. So what are, are, when, when you're talking about playing pole vault, what are some of the first things that you teach a beginner? A 10 year old, other than the run up?

Philippe Collet: (59:33)
It's, it, it's true that it's a real difference between playing pole vault and playing basketball, soccer or whatever, because the ID is just, what is the same is just the idea of playing and have fun. But for me it's no way to j to, it's no way to pole vault without technical things. It's, I mean, everything, everything is has to be right. So with, with kids, I mean, when I, I'm coaching because I also coach kids, I what we call pav school mm-hmm. I'm taking care of about my club Pav school. So with kids from Yeah. Now the youngest is 10, 10 to 12 years old, small group, 15 maximum. But I'm always on them always whatever they do with the pole or around the pole during the, the, the, the, the lesson or the, yeah. It's, we take care. Everything should be right.

Philippe Collet: (01:00:48)
No, no, no mistake. No bad habits. Because that's the worst, that's the worst things on Paul because you get bad habits very, very quickly. Mm-Hmm. . And if you have a kid who just learn, learn to jump like this. Right. No, no way. No way. Why? Because he won't jump good, but it will also injure more easily, quickly. So, no, I mean the pole is really a technical event. And, and even with my sons or top top world athletes, I cannot just look at them jumping on training without asking something. Work on something. Yeah. Not too much points, but trying to do it. Right. So with the kids, it's important that you have technical coach with high, the good high trying to make them jump. Right. You don't need to be to have that much experience. You don't need to have been a, a good jumpers to be a, a very good coach.

Philippe Collet: (01:02:04)
Mm-Hmm. . Because when you know the base, I mean, actually pole vault is really simple. It's, it's, I I really think that technic of pole vault is simple. There is some biomechanic rules. And if you respect the base of this, it's easy to coach. You just need to focus every time. Don't let a kid make it wrong without correction. I think it's really important. And, and that's probably one of the reason that the French pole vault event is strong for many, many years. We don't have that much talent for sure. Mm-Hmm. . But we have good coach and we speak the same language. All the coaches, we accept that other coach, coach our athletes. No one is our property for sure. That's important. No one, I have no problem to send Tibo and Matt chair on the competition or even if in the training camp, if it happen and get coached by by another coach, it's, it's really no problem. But again, Paul vaulting and learn, Paul vaulting has to be square. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, I

Jake Winder: (01:03:26)
Like that answer a lot. I think we're gonna get kicked off here, Philippe, so let's wrap this thing up. Thank you so much. It was a lot of fun. Thank you guys so much. Really appreciate it.